Hi, How you doing?
I'm new to this whole thing, so I just have a couple of basic questions.. the party I am playing with consists of a few varying character archetypes, (we based them on super/gameheroes) and the one I started off playing as was a sort of cyborg ninja type (Raiden from mgr)and was a pretty good character but with low hp due to some tragic rolling... I was attacked and drained by a vampire out of the blue (Which created all sorts of issues at first) but the lawful good (celestial) paladin, feeling some responsibility, made a prayer to the gods that be who shifted my alignment from chaotic evil, to chaotic neutral (so paladin's no longer want to instakill me).
Now, my question gets complicated here: Due to unfortunate circumstances, my depravity is moderate, resulting in my character being treacherous(great fun), What would happen, if for some reason, I were to energy drain the paladin in the attack opportunity and he died? Being a holy being, would he not turn, or if he did turn, what of his powers, for example lay on hands.. would that become the opposite? And would the alignment (being that I am CN and he is currently LG) be CE, or CN?
Thanks for your time and please, don't flame me down. Like I said I am new to this..
Ex-Paladin
Ex-Paladins
A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and abilities (including the service of the paladin’s mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any farther in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate.
Like a member of any other class, a paladin may be a multiclass character, but multiclass paladins face a special restriction. A paladin who gains a level in any class other than paladin may never again raise her paladin level, though she retains all her paladin abilities.
It wouldn't be through the paladins choice that he changes, it'd be because, being treacherous, my character takes any and every attack opportunity, including teammates. And the way i plan to do it if it does come up, is roll a D4 for my available attacks, and if it happens to land on the right number, it will be Grapple with either Energy Drain or Blood Drain..
I'm not going to go out of my way to do it. It's just something i've been toying with the idea of. And the reason i ask that specific question is because.. wouldn't it be hilarious if the palading character who (being LG is pretty stupid in his actions) suddenly wakes up CE, but tries to use lay on hands, and blasts his hands off?
(so paladin's no longer want to instakill me).
Why would they want to instakill you? They're under no compulsion to do that. One of them even healed you.
Now, my question gets complicated here: Due to unfortunate circumstances, my depravity is moderate, resulting in my character being treacherous(great fun), What would happen, if for some reason, I were to energy drain the paladin in the attack opportunity and he died? Being a holy being, would he not turn, or if he did turn, what of his powers, for example lay on hands.. would that become the opposite? And would the alignment (being that I am CN and he is currently LG) be CE, or CN?
If the other player thinks it would be interesting for the paladin to turn and for the paladin's powers to become the opposite, then that's what can happen. There are no rules requiring that to happen, however.
Why would they want to instakill you? They're under no compulsion to do that. One of them even healed you.
That was a messy situation, we basically played the guilt trip on the paladin as he "hired" my character and took no action to attempt to save my character as i was being attacked. He didn't heal me as such, just made a prayer for me that resulted in a shift in alignment, obviously i'm very grateful for that, as he is Lawful Good (Or in some circumstances, Lawful Stupid) lol, and was adamant on attempting to kill me if i came back Chaotic Evil. But if for any reason we bump into paladins in a town, or as NPC's if Lawful Good, they may have wanted to do so.
If the other player thinks it would be interesting for the paladin to turn and for the paladin's powers to become the opposite, then that's what can happen. There are no rules requiring that to happen, however.
I see! So it could essentially become an entire reversal, so Lay on Hands could be come something like Touch of Wounds? (I don't know if that exists but i'm saying it anyway)
That's pretty funky
On another note, to show the sort of, numptiness the character can show, we are entering the castle of a very powerful vampire lord, who has basically dominated the land, and in the dead of night, the front door is wide open. I manage to pursuade them to wait outside for a moment whilst i check for enemies from the ceiling(silent movement, spiderclimb, hide), I manage to ascertain there are no enemies in that particular room, (there are some gargoyles and some nice firebreathing dragon statues). The moment i announce this and my intention to search for traps, he storms in without waiting for the trap search, triggers something that activates the gargoyles and firebreathing dragon statues, resulting in a couple of npc deaths and nearly his own!
Was quite fun though, saving them from the ceiling.
I see! So it could essentially become an entire reversal, so Lay on Hands could be come something like Touch of Wounds? (I don't know if that exists but i'm saying it anyway)
That's pretty funky
The rules are silent on it and you'd be in somewhat uncharted territory, but if that's what your table thinks is cool, then make it work.
As far as the alignment goes, I think the Blackguard required Evil, but this is something that should be the DM's call.
Incidentally, I'd say that if he manages to become undead and keep his LG alignment, lay on hands should not hurt him so long as he doesn't use it on himself - based on the analogies to these variant paladins, or a non-tomb-tainted dread necromancer, or a cleric using inflict spells, none of whom commit suicide by using their abilities. If he does try to use it on himself, he should be fine so long as he can make it to his coffin in time to recuperate. You did bring one, didn't you?
If he becomes evil (or not LG) and losses his paladin abilities or the ability to continue as a paladin then maybe he should look at taking levels in the Blackguard prestige class (DMG). Once he gains levels as a blackguard he may regain some of his paladin powers based off what level of a paladin he was before he became a blackguard. Chek kit out, the Blackguard is actually a cool class and would fit well with a paladin turned vampire.
As far as the alignment goes, I think the Blackguard required Evil, but this is something that should be the DM's call.
Seems like a pretty awesome idea! The DM has decreed that as a celestial class, he cannot be turned, so i am a little disappointed, but non the less, i love all the input i've recieved! Thank you :D
You may also want to check the variant paladins (www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/varia... and scroll down). Paladin of Slaughter of Paladin of Tyranny might be what you are looking for if you want to go for a complete reversal. There are no rules for this to happen, but at least the conversion should be easy enough without requiring a prestige class.
Incidentally, I'd say that if he manages to become undead and keep his LG alignment, lay on hands should not hurt him so long as he doesn't use it on himself - based on the analogies to these variant paladins, or a non-tomb-tainted dread necromancer, or a cleric using inflict spells, none of whom commit suicide by using their abilities. If he does try to use it on himself, he should be fine so long as he can make it to his coffin in time to recuperate. You did bring one, didn't you?
I had a coffin made (rosewood) because the locale we are in, requires a lot of passing over running water, and i nearly needed it pretty quickly! I got down to 1hp in a grapple before i realised i could Gaseous form out of it! lol
The different variations of paladin are pretty awesome though!
If he becomes evil (or not LG) and losses his paladin abilities or the ability to continue as a paladin then maybe he should look at taking levels in the Blackguard prestige class (DMG). Once he gains levels as a blackguard he may regain some of his paladin powers based off what level of a paladin he was before he became a blackguard. Chek kit out, the Blackguard is actually a cool class and would fit well with a paladin turned vampire.
As far as the alignment goes, I think the Blackguard required Evil, but this is something that should be the DM's call.
Seems like a pretty awesome idea! The DM has decreed that as a celestial class, he cannot be turned, so i am a little disappointed
A classic way for a DM to block a player idea. What did the paladin player think about the idea?
In this instance, the paladin is in league with the GM, which is fair enough, it's his character, i wouldn't want to force anything upon him.
Good. But they shouldn't need to block the idea with some made-up rule about how celestials can't be turned. They should just be able to decline the suggestion. Oh, well.
slightly off subject, is there a way of my character (vampire) becoming not fried by sunlight? Through some trinket?
Probably, but why did you choose to be a vampire if you weren't prepared to deal with the downsides?
"I wear a stetson now, stetson's are cool" (Yes Dr Who is clearly a vampire - explains his immortality and the way he hypnotises young women into his castle. The fact that he sleep in a wooden box is just a dead give away. Oh and two hearts - another classic sign of a vampire)
slightly off subject, is there a way of my character (vampire) becoming not fried by sunlight? Through some trinket?
Become a master vampire: www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/200...
Beyond that, there is a salve in Libris Mortis offering protection from sunlight for 1 hour.
The feat Endure Sunlight protects you for Cha+1 round, which won't help considering you got turned because of your low charisma.
Night's Mantle (LoD) prevents you from getting hurt, but does not prevent aversion. Lasts 10 minutes/level and costs 1000gp at each casting. Dominate people into giving you money for the "Save-The-Vampires-Charity: Those poor creatures, so important to our cultural heritage, are almost driven to extinction by the swift changes of the conditions in their habitat. Can you, good citizen, stand by while a whole race is slowly destroyed?".
Cloak of Dark Power (FRCS) is a drow-only spell whch lasts 1 min/level, does not interfere with vision, and protects from full sunlight. You also gain +4 resistance on saves against light spells, should one of those clerics decide to take the matter, and the wand of searing light, into their own hands. By RAW, it appears only on the Drow Domain list, so good luck getting that, unless you can research it by yourself. 1000 gp one time expenditure + whatever you must sacrifice to your DM.
That said, in most actual vampire legends, sunlight does not always harm them. Dracular strolls through the streets of London at high noon, if I recall the book.
Alternatively, convince the city council that sunlight causes cancer, heartstroke, sunburn, and other dangerous and painfull illnesses, and that they must therefore built a dome over their city to protect its citizens. Dominate them, or let them realise what kind of influence the guys who say when the artifical lamps go on and out have over work hours and production. Use this as your model: http://www.netreach.net/~rjones/no_dhmo.html
I may attempt the stetson approach first though!
slightly off subject, is there a way of my character (vampire) becoming not fried by sunlight? Through some trinket?
Probably, but why did you choose to be a vampire if you weren't prepared to deal with the downsides?
If he's anything like me (3.5 half-orc archery ranger, anyone?), he probably saw the downsides as a challenge instead of asking the DM to make the vampire an NPC while the player made something else that was more traditionally "comfortable."
Maybe you could discuss a housrule about invisibility spells protecting you by making the light go right through you without hurting you? Or maybe, depending on how which editions even have gaseous form for vampires, one of your friends could keep a collection of very sturdy opaque bottles for you to gaseous yourself into?
All you need is a cloak and a wide-brimmed hat.
"I wear a stetson now, stetson's are cool" (Yes The Doctor is clearly a vampire - explains his immortality and the way he hypnotises young women into his castle. The fact that he sleep in a wooden box is just a dead give away. Oh and two hearts - another classic sign of a vampire)
Nonsense, vampires aren't Time Lords, vampires are fish!
If he's anything like me (3.5 half-orc archery ranger, anyone?), he probably saw the downsides as a challenge instead of asking the DM to make the vampire an NPC while the player made something else that was more traditionally "comfortable."
Maybe you could discuss a housrule about invisibility spells protecting you by making the light go right through you without hurting you? Or maybe, depending on how which editions even have gaseous form for vampires, one of your friends could keep a collection of very sturdy opaque bottles for you to gaseous yourself into?
You are right, that's partly the reason, and the benefits for my character type (ninja aiming for occult slayer) are far beyond the disadvantages (which are surmountable with a hat of shade. protects the wearer from all light related effects including sunlight. The GM has suggested keeping an eye out for it.
I've thought about the gaseous form, and the problem with that, is the way i see the "fog" it creates (we decided it was a fog) would reflect and refract the light, so it's a good option, but not overly useful.. however, being bottled for transport is a fantastic idea!!
being bottled for transport is a fantastic idea!!
You can thank one of Nightforme's players for coming up with that one.
however, being bottled for transport is a fantastic idea!!
Just think, you could be deployed as a grenade.
however, being bottled for transport is a fantastic idea!!
Just think, you could be deployed as a grenade.
More like an evil genie, that way you don't run out of bottles
You should probably know that paladins have some pretty good advantages against undead. More importantly, the player might not want his paladin being a vampire... but I guess that's what he gets for hanging out with vampires, lol. Whatever you do, make sure nobody's feelings get hurt about it... just a game after all.
SEARCH: BLACKGUARD
Search Geas / Quest for more info, probably.
I compleated my Geas! and the ifreet granted my wishes, (I am now a Daywalker!). That solves that issue, however i completely forgot about running water, and the next part of our adventure is on a ship! lol, Time for me to roll npc for a bit i think ;)