DM:you open the door and you see a 15x15 foot room.
Me:Hoshi(my fighter/dragon diciple) searches the room for traps *reaches for dice*
DM: you notice a pitfall in the middle of the room.
Me: *dice still in hand* Ok... I walk into the room, going around the trap
DM: a young blue dragon bursts out from the trap, use ing it's lightning breath! It does *rolls a handful of d6s* 24 damage.
Me: HEY! don't I get a reflex save!?!
DM: oh, right...
When he says that he really doesn't have anything prepared and then proceeds to play on his Xbox for three hours while we watch him mouths agape, despite the fact that everyone took sixteen buses to get to his place, expecting a game AFTER HAVING BEEN TOLD THAT THERE WOULD BE A GAME AND I WORKED FOR 12 HOURS THAT DAY GRAAAAARGH
LOL, this one is hilarious.
You know you have a crappy DM(at the moment) when they railroad NPC's into your game despite your group not wanting a particular character in the game.
*Picture our group interviewing potential NPC's*
DM: You guys see a Dwarven female walk up to you guys inquiring about the job posted outside.
Us: We don't like Dwarves. We tell her to walk away.
Later on.....
DM: Since two of your party members are down, the Dwarven female springs out of the bushes, and heals them.
Us:
WHAT?!?!?! We told her we didn't want her around.Then being told that you ruined the night, and given the ultimatum that if you ever do it again your kicked from the group.
tl;dr- He told me later online to find a way to stop her from RPing that long IC if I wanted to move the story along (THAT'S WHAT I WAS DOING!) He asked if I even cared if I played anymore after the ultimatum, I said no and they didn't play since.
DM: when you enter the cave, you see a sleeping white dragon
Me: Ok, my rouge ( my group consists of just me and the DM, so I get to play 4 characters at the same time) sneaks up on the dragon (I make the reqired checks) and shoves his +3 short sword between two of the looser scales on it's neck (I figgure this would make for a easy sneak attack crit.)
DM: The dragon dies.
Me: Huh? I just did the equivilant of sticking someone in the neck with mom's sowing neetle. Painful, but deadly? not imediatly...
If he wasn't a friend of mine, I would have cut him off long ago
When he asks you if he can borrow your DMG.
Eh, he could have read it up and down in PDF format.
When he asks you if he can borrow your DMG.
The DM could just be poor, and that is not necessarily a sign of a crappy DM.
The moment they say anything like 'I am god here', you know you're gonna have problems.
When I'm kicking things off with a new group, I like to break that uncomfortable feeling-out period by slamming a fist on the table and yelling, "YOU'RE IN MY WORLD NOW, B****ES!!!"
followed up by
"Did anyone bring the DM a 2-liter of Mountain Dew, or are we rolling new characters today?"
I'm not joking. It's not always verbatim, but I generally say something very similar to those things at the start of a campaign with new players--even if it's a group of people I know, but am DMing for for the first time. Once they realize you're joking, they tend to come out of the initial 30 seconds a lot more relaxed than they were at the beginning.
So far, it's worked out wonderfully. In fact, a lot of players have responded to the joke by bringing me Mountain Dew on game days. Gotta love it.
Back to the subject at hand:
I typically won't go to a third session if TVs or other electronics (phones, video games, computers, etc) were an issue during the 1st and 2nd game days. I dislike having gaming ruined by distractions.
DM: you didn't ask
The above happened to me several times with a particular DM. It was very annoying.
A few years ago we had a guy try to run a game who had the foolish notion that he had the entire campaign detailed out to lv28. He told us this. Before we'd even rolled up characters!
His prospective players politely informed him that this was not possible. That he couldn't possibly know what we would do. Especially prior to character creation....
He insited otherwise.
We warned him that it wouldn't happen (not with this group anyways) as he envisioned & that he'd better be flexable if he wanted to DM for us.
Again, he insisted otherwise.
Well we warned him....
His game lasted all of 3 sessions.
He may well have had a master plan. What he lacked was a means to implement it besides a very narrow gauge of track & any concept that the players might have plans of their own for their characters.
When I'm kicking things off with a new group, I like to break that uncomfortable feeling-out period by slamming a fist on the table and yelling, "YOU'RE IN MY WORLD NOW, B****ES!!!"
followed up by
"Did anyone bring the DM a 2-liter of Mountain Dew, or are we rolling new characters today?"
I'm not joking. It's not always verbatim, but I generally say something very similar to those things at the start of a campaign with new players--even if it's a group of people I know, but am DMing for for the first time. Once they realize you're joking, they tend to come out of the initial 30 seconds a lot more relaxed than they were at the beginning.
So far, it's worked out wonderfully. In fact, a lot of players have responded to the joke by bringing me Mountain Dew on game days. Gotta love it.
Back to the subject at hand:
I typically won't go to a third session if TVs or other electronics (phones, video games, computers, etc) were an issue during the 1st and 2nd game days. I dislike having gaming ruined by distractions.
The wife of one of my players recently joined our group and she is fairly new to D&D. After her character was made up and as soon as the game started I turned to her and told her to roll a d20. After she told me the result I told her, "Awww. Your character dies. Thanks for playing. Hope you had fun." I then got up and opened up the door to the apartment. Her husband actually sad something along the lines of, "I told you he was tough. Have dinner waiting for me when I get home." We all burst out laughing at that point, especially the new player, who said something to the effect of, "Nah. He's not tough. He's just a **** (begins with the letter "D" and sounds like "lick)." Tension breakers can be a very vital part of the game.
I cannot blame the character though, every encounter (3.5 were talking) is being ambushed (typically by a hill giant/troll hiding under a leaf) and the monster getting to move and take a move and a full round attack on the PC's. The monster always wins inititave too, so another full round attack. Every adventure someone gets cursed/disabled for the whole adventure practically not being able to do anything. It has happened to me twice my halfing rogue was sneaking into a doorway when BBEG was waiting for me he suprised me, theres 3/4ths my life, then he wins init. his standard action is knocking me out and his 27 move actions are to drag me away. The other time is when my level 3 halfling rogue (I know I should've learned) was eaten by a *bleeping* purple worm and killed immediately, then the worm ran away everyone else untouched. I'm glad he hasn't DMed 4thed. Looking back at it I cannot name once were a rogue hasn't been killed/taken out for the whole adventure with getting a round in combat. Seroiusly play a rogue and your dead!!!!!
Even worse if when they start nerfing things after the game starts. "No, you can't do that. No, Green Flame blade doesn't do are damage anymore because that's to powerful. No, you can't backstab even though you have combat advantage, because you're not behind him." Etc, Etc, Etc, Et Al.
My immediate turn off switch is when the DM starts listing everything that isn't allowed in his game, especially when it's not a homebrew setting. Like, No druids because they're broken, no elves because they're all Emo, no Halflings because I don't like them, no Warlords because non-magical healing doesn't make sense, no Spiked Chains, Bastard Swords, or Fullblades because they're broken. We're playing Forgotten Realms.
Even worse if when they start nerfing things after the game starts. "No, you can't do that. No, Green Flame blade doesn't do are damage anymore because that's to powerful. No, you can't backstab even though you have combat advantage, because you're not behind him." Etc, Etc, Etc, Et Al.
I don't mind DM's banning things so long as they have a leg to stand on about it being broken. 3rd Edition druids were banned around here since about 2002, and we didn't allow Tempests or Battleragers until the errata came in. It's when they ban things based on knee-jerk reactions, rather than anything calculable, that gets me (3rd edition psionics or Tome of Battle were two big ones).
For the whole 5 week journey.
And proceeds to ask for Listen and Spot checks every 20 minutes game time, usually followed by "You hear a bird!" or "You see a squirrel!". We somehow never managed to make the checks to see the creatures that ambushed us.
Those were some of the most painful 3 game sessions of my gaming career.
(The PCs ended up ditching the caravan and force-marching cross-country to the nearest town.)
The wife of one of my players recently joined our group and she is fairly new to D&D. After her character was made up and as soon as the game started I turned to her and told her to roll a d20. After she told me the result I told her, "Awww. Your character dies. Thanks for playing. Hope you had fun." I then got up and opened up the door to the apartment. Her husband actually sad something along the lines of, "I told you he was tough. Have dinner waiting for me when I get home." We all burst out laughing at that point, especially the new player, who said something to the effect of, "Nah. He's not tough. He's just a **** (begins with the letter "D" and sounds like "lick)." Tension breakers can be a very vital part of the game.
Agreed!
The first time new elements are added, there are generally questions in each person's mind that keep them from being entirely comfortable until certain curiousities are satisfied. How much do these people RP?--that's a big one. How much are they optimizing? What hang-ups do they have? How much side-banter or joking are acceptable? Am I going to come off as too hardcore, or not hardcore enough?
A great tension breaker can complete that process in 30 seconds or less, and get everyone at the table to relax and kick things off with smiles on their faces.
When he asks you if he can borrow your DMG.
My DM forgot to bring his DMG with him in one session. Mistakes in this type of situation can happen.
When he dismisses you as a whiny baby when you want to discuss an issue of the game impeding on your fun.
"Roll Percentile, you want high"
"But this is 3.5."
"Yeah, and? Roll Percentile and now you have to roll higher"
I have played under a DM who has never gotten themselves out of AD&D. This DM attempts to run 3.5 but can not seem to put their d10s aside. The above would be for a situation where I would have a d20 roll skill check. I have skill ranks for a modifier. It is something I should be able to do and there are obvious and standard rules for it. There is this new thing called DCs...been around for many years, but this DM just won't bring themselves to read and understand the rule book for the version that they are purporting to be playing.
This is the main reason I know longer play in this DMs world.
Yes, this happened. Neither DM nor player are in our current group.
...and you can tell that the person in question isn't just a bad DM, but also a ****ty friend, because all of this driving is done in your car that is on it's very last legs and you are trying to drive as little as possible in an effort to save up enough money to not have to go without a car of some sort while living over 5 miles from everywhere you ever need to go, and have talked with him personally and asked him to give some forewarning that the game will not be happening.
The next time his game gets cancelled last minute, is the last time I ever play in one of his games.
The moment they say anything like 'I am god here', you know you're gonna have problems.
Yeh. Seconded. Anyone giving off the "It's MYYYYYY world!" vibe can expect to see me walk in no time flat.
When they insist an on aff-schedule game because they just saw this really cool movie.
When they start to act out their personal problems through game plots.
When they invite their SO to the game just so he/she can be the group's leader.
When the OOG chit-chat starts to overwhelm things AND IT'S THE DM WHO'S DOING IT!
When you bring out your characters, pull out your dice and look eagerly at the DM for the hook and he asks what you guys are doing. You tell him, and he just keeps going with "Okay, then what?" When you ask for details, he asks "What do you want to see?". I didn't realize it was Rogerian D&D! (This was actually the most flattering session of my gaming career, because when he asked that last question, the player pointed at me and said "Her, back in the DM chair.")
I'd say pretty much any tyrannical DM. What do you think of the "DM is always right rule?" (If he uses it)
That's a good time to beat feet. The DM is not always right (no human is). What the DM says, however, goes.
The DM can say that elves get +4 to all stats and nobody can attack them because they have such incredible unearthly beauty that even the blackest-hearted demons in Hell can't bear to mar it. He can say that. It goes in his game. But he is most assuredly WRONG.
I am dealing with this issue right now in a game I play in. I dislike DMPC's in general. I only rely on having one if I have a low party number and/or player's who have trouble managing more than one character at a time. And that's if I really feel that one is needed at all.
You have a crappy DM if...
- They come to the table with five 3" binders filled with house rules and alternate rules for almost everything in the game.
I have encountered this once and I have never been the same since.
"I've replaced the races with my own homebrew ones."
"I've prepared a 20-page document detailing the setting..."
"I have no plot prepared for this game! It's going to be a sandbox!"
"It's mostly 4th Edition but I've added a couple of custom races and classes based on Halo."
"I've replaced the races with my own homebrew ones."
"I've prepared a 20-page document detailing the setting..."
"
What's wrong with these two?
"I've prepared a 20-page document detailing the setting..."
You have a crappy DM if...
- They come to the table with five 3" binders filled with house rules and alternate rules for almost everything in the game.
Heh I have been in one of these types of games, and it was AWESOME!
20 page? The guy who runs this game can and IS writing a book on his campaign setting. It got to the point where I was writing down tons of notes about his game just to keep myself immersed! It was hard keeping everything straight, but it was worth it because the world was so detailed. There was something like 5 different plots running around, all of which could cause the world to more or less end, had all sorts of different political and otherwise aspects where everyone had an agenda and worked with or against each other.... yeah.
I should mention that he has pages of house rules, but he did them right. Specifically, he makes rulings but he allows his players to actually vote on the rulings. He keeps them consistent and reminds players that anything a player can do an NPC can do. It has bit them in the ass a few times but it works great.
I wrote down several pages of notes about this game, IN CHARACTER no less, since my only character in this game was not only absurdly intelligent (due to house rules he actually has a 25 int base and he is HUMAN), but also was a CN skill monkey rogue/wizard/unseen seer with aspirations of landing himself on the tvtropes list of magnificent bastards. (seen here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard ) But even if I wasnt running a character like this I would need notes anyway to keep some of the names and things straight since the entire world is hard to keep track of.
Detail is NEVER a bad thing to have in a game, however the expectation that your player would have to keep track of it all is an unrealistic thing to try to do.
If you have a detailed world, your players SHOULD pick up on things over time. Bear in mind that they will pick up more on current events than the history of the world. Don't presume your players will know everything and in a detailed world it will be your job to help your players by reminding them about the world. After all their characters would know about it. Many DMs forget that while they have to remind their players about out of character metagame knowledge the player knows, that they also have to provide knowledge the character knows even if the player does not.
Example: Player forgot about who the Knights of the Flame (who I just made up I dunno if they are a real thing) are.
Bad: "You see an armored group of Knights of the Flame." "My paladin attacks!" "You lose your LG alignment and paladin powers. " "What?? Why?"
Good: "You see an armored group of Knights of the Flame." "My paladin attacks!" "You do know these knights are a lawful good order right?" "Oh..."
Heh I have been in one of these types of games, and it was AWESOME!
20 page? The guy who runs this game can and IS writing a book on his campaign setting.
I'm sure you had a great game and you've got a great DM. Doesn't change the principle that giving players 20 pages of notes prior to the game is always inferior to showing that same information through actual gameplay.
It's a "show, don't tell" thing.
"I've replaced the races with my own homebrew ones." (I would have no problem with that. DMs can and should set the races as they see fit for their setting.)
"I've prepared a 20-page document detailing the setting..." (Nothing wrong with that, in fact this is awesome, so long as the DM doesn't expect people to memorize it)
"I have no plot prepared for this game! It's going to be a sandbox!" (Agreed, this is lame).
"It's mostly 4th Edition but I've added a couple of custom races and classes based on Halo." (Agreed, this is also lame. As are any games set based on video games)
First one would throw named characters from the established history at you in a way you can't fight against, especially when you're just starting. However he saves the day by having major characters that are on your side swoop in and save you in time. That game went maybe 5 sessions I think.
The other one is a guy running a game where regardless if you achieve the overall objective you still fail on some level. It was a sci-fi game and the first thing the starting characters had to do was take out this massive battleship the main bad guy was using as a flagship. We somehow managed to do that but one of our guys got taken in the process. So it turns out a friendly fleet jumped into the area and people in our group told them about the friendly that was on one of the escape shuttles leaving. After a lengthy discussion and having a neutral party come over and suggest how to move the entire fleet to get our other guy back, Chumpley the moronic just moves the ships the way he wanted to before and they got away. The missions after that just got worse and worse with us unable to do anything. The game lasted about 6 sessions. Oh and did I forget to mention he just randomly threw 3 separate recognizable properties together with no thought to how they may fit. AND he created a character that is every munchkin's wet dream put to paper, this schmuck of a character would break every mary-sue meter created.
What? How? What ****ing happened?
If its really really late like 8 in the morning then I would understand otherwise some description what is happening should be done ;)
Or just that he hit you without asking your ac etc ? I know the Ac of all my players by heart so I don´t need to ask everytime.
"We're playing a mash-up of 3.5 and 4th Edition." (Maybe, as long as it is clear to the players which rules will follow which edition and doesn't just arbitrarily shift mid combat)
3.5/4E mashups are a shorthand way of saying, "Who wants to see what D&D would look like if it didn't have playtesting or a coherent design philosophy?" It's a fundamentally terrible idea. If you're competent enough to design a good RPG then go do it, and if you're not then don't inflict your mad science on players.
"I've replaced the races with my own homebrew ones." (I would have no problem with that. DMs can and should set the races as they see fit for their setting.)
It's my same complaint about homebrew - either you're a game designer or you ain't, and even if you are it's pretty unlikely your solo effort is going to be as exciting and playable as something playested and QAed. But putting that aside, there's a line between a DM who bans some official races and/or includes one or two homebrew races, and a DM who bans ALL official races and replaces them entirely with homebrew (which is what I was bashing). There's a point where a player gets to say, "Sorry, dude, I came to play D&D, not... whatever this is."
"I've prepared a 20-page document detailing the setting..." (Nothing wrong with that, in fact this is awesome, so long as the DM doesn't expect people to memorize it)
Probably better to say, so long as the DM doesn't expect people to read it. It's a show-don't-tell issue. If the information in the document is relevant it should be clearly presented during gameplay as part of the core plot, and if it's not relevant then it's not relevant. While people volunteering to do extra work between sessions is cool, a DM saddling his players with D&D homework is highly lame.
But with all of the above, look, I think they're bad ideas, but if you love 'em and your players love 'em and you're all having fun then that's the final arbiter.
when it's the monsters turn and the Dm rolls some dice, looks down in the Dm screen and just declares, "You take 4 damage."
What? How? What ****ing happened?
Oh, boy, this.
I had a DM who never described things going on in battle like that, and only referred to monsters by the kind of miniature they represented; he'd tell us we come into a room, initiative.. that giant attacks you, and then that ghost attacks you.. they miss, the black bear next to x attacks x... It led to some very interesting encounters in my head where fire giants and dragons and treants were all assaulting us in smoothe circular rooms, like something out of a SciFi channel movie of the week.
Oh, boy, this.
I had a DM who never described things going on in battle like that, and only referred to monsters by the kind of miniature they represented; he'd tell us we come into a room, initiative.. that giant attacks you, and then that ghost attacks you.. they miss, the black bear next to x attacks x... It led to some very interesting encounters in my head where fire giants and dragons and treants were all assaulting us in smoothe circular rooms, like something out of a SciFi channel movie of the week.
I DM'd a quick 4th edition game and was criticized by my players for providing TOO many details. I'm serious, they didn't want me to describe "The kobold charges at you with a scream and slashes your arm for 5 damage." They just wanted me to move the pieces, roll a die and say "This guy hits you for 5 damage." They didn't even like me using different versions of the word "Hit" like "He cracks you on the head for 10 damage." Apparently they wanted me to have the same personality as the floating damage stats you see in World of Warcraft. I didn't get very many words of praise for taking the time to DM. This game was a 1 shot and I didn't have any desire afterwards to continue it. Now I remember why I haven't bothered to touch the mantle since.
At any rate I guess different players want different things.
Roll.
Hit.
5.
That totally sucked big, green, moldy ones.
"I have no plot prepared for this game! It's going to be a sandbox!" (Agreed, this is lame).
The 'no-plot' point is lame, IMO. Sandbox is fine if you put plots out there for players to discover. From my earlier post:
When you bring out your characters, pull out your dice and look eagerly at the DM for the hook and he asks what you guys are doing. You tell him, and he just keeps going with "Okay, then what?" When you ask for details, he asks "What do you want to see?". I didn't realize it was Rogerian D&D! (This was actually the most flattering session of my gaming career, because when he asked that last question, the player pointed at me and said "Her, back in the DM chair.")
Gah! THIS is no plot. But in my campaign world (est. 1983) I have plots buried all over the place. All you have to do is exist and you'll find something. If you're having trouble, I'll move things around a bit. Something will find you.
Back OT:
DMs who are high on some obscure foreign film/novel/TV show that nobody else at the table has seen, let alone has wet dreams over, and who get indignant when nobody gets their references to said film/novel/TV show.
Hell, most days I don't know what I'M thinking of at any moment o.o And I usually add that into most of my character's rp.
Or the worse thing is when a DM under-describes a situation ... so you nominate to do something ... in which case he tells you its impossible ...
Even though its entirely not your fault, you still feel embarrassed for it <.<
i.e before you is a double-door at the end of a 25 by 10 ft-long corridor .... roll a d20....
: (this Dm knew most of our stats before each session)
You hear some faint echoes of slightly agitated, lisping speech emanating from beyond the door.
I kick open the door to surprise whatever adversaries that may lie beyond it .....
It's made of bronze and weighs about 1000 pounds ....
..... then obviously I dont kick it open.....
--------
That being said, it's not that bad a thing .. and I can understand if a DM wants to quickly finish a scenario because everybody is getting a bit tired and the pcs are getting close to the end of this particular adventure, and it would good to finish the session as this particular adventure ends as well.
But you still feel embarassed, you know?
He kills so many characters he doesn't even bother to introduce new characters.
He picks favorites to live.
He gives the level 6 paladin a +5 vorpal sword (3.5).
He lets said paladin cheat (always rolled a nat 20 crit followed by a 19 confirm on a suspiciously dark hard to read die).
He bans nearly ever book outside the core three. Nevermind some of us bought and want to use them. Meanwhile he can use monsters from any book.
He thinks at-will means free action. No this happened, honest to god. DM used monsters with at-will spell-likes in 3.5 and just fired a whole bunch off all he wanted and when I told him that's not what at-will meant he didn't believe me. When I SHOWED him that's not what it meant he tried to spin it, terribly I might add. I just gave him "the look," you know that one that says "you're a flippin idiot."
The DM asks you how things work... I suppose since I'm the "rules guy" for our group it's not so bad sometimes, but I wish everyone else would bother to read the phbs combat section once in a while. It's better than him just winging it though in any case.
The DM thinks D&D is a game of dm vs player. He never dmed again.
The DM's main story arc is a "prophecy" comprised of Led Zepplin's stairway to heaven.
The DM wants to turn you into a vampire, despite your protests, because he's a vampire fanboi.
The DM IS a vampire fanboi.:P
You know you have a group of crappy dms when no one sits in the dms chair for more than about a month or so. I miss good dedicated dms.
- Module GMs, who don't read the module.
- '...because I said so.' (This is way too often w/some DMs)
- Baddies who all start speeches with 'FOOLS, I...'
- Whining when we kill monsters. (Even the things that he planed on letting die)
- Fanboi railroading. Ugh, the furries/vampire/Cthulhu campaign.
- Monologues which turn into cut-scenes.
- Deus Ex-ing our fights, especially if we could have taken it/them. With Cloud or Go-ku.
- Mid-session house-ruling.
- Complaining about character's power-level. Even though we made them with him present, went over our PCs before the game, and had approval on every front... until we do something he didn't want.
- Being told to make a specific character, even though it is useless. I.e., a rogue who starts out w/o equipment, is unable to hit any open lock/dis. dev. DC even rolling a 20, and gets to fight only un-Sneak Attack-able monsters. Or a requested Cleric in a world w/o DIVINE MAGIC. Or a requested wizard in a dungeon completely encased in an anti-magic field. Three different DMs, too.
- +10 CR monsters. (That was one of the easier fights)
The following events have all happened.
- Module GMs, who don't read the module.
- '...because I said so.' (This is way too often w/some DMs)
- Baddies who all start speeches with 'FOOLS, I...'
- Whining when we kill monsters. (Even the things that he planed on letting die)
- Fanboi railroading. Ugh, the furries/vampire/Cthulhu campaign.
- Monologues which turn into cut-scenes.
- Deus Ex-ing our fights, especially if we could have taken it/them. With Cloud or Go-ku.
- Mid-session house-ruling.
- Complaining about character's power-level. Even though we made them with him present, went over our PCs before the game, and had approval on every front... until we do something he didn't want.
- Being told to make a specific character, even though it is useless. I.e., a rogue who starts out w/o equipment, is unable to hit any open lock/dis. dev. DC even rolling a 20, and gets to fight only un-Sneak Attack-able monsters. Or a requested Cleric in a world w/o DIVINE MAGIC. Or a requested wizard in a dungeon completely encased in an anti-magic field. Three different DMs, too.
- +10 CR monsters. (That was one of the easier fights)
Wow, and I thought I saw some bad dms. That's just..... wow.
These are usually the same GMs who make players who describe their actions cinematically make acrobatic and or athletic skill checks before they make a basic attack while players who say I hit the guy get to make the exact same attack.
- +10 CR monsters. (That was one of the easier fights)
Yeh, we used to have a guy in the group who decided that the CR system was too easy and started crafting encounters by hit dice. As in, "You're 5 level fours, that's 20 hd, you should be able to fight a balor."
He doesn't play with us anymore, because "We want things to be too easy."
...Yeh.
When you have a full party and they still insist on using a DMPC.
When they invite their SO to the game just so he/she can be the group's leader.
The DM that wants to play is a nightmare. We get it. You can make characters too. How 'bout you make the NPCs a little more interesting and with anything to say, rather than playtesting out your ranger's dpr.
The SO. *sigh* I know for many groups, it's a great thing. But...GAH!
"I've prepared a 20-page document detailing the setting..."
If I could get someone to read a 20-page document, I'd gladly give them the rest. Yeah, I've got 20+ pages, but who needs it? I agree with the 'show, don't tell', but you can't show everything.
"I have no plot prepared for this game! It's going to be a sandbox!"
This is awesome. Let the players decide, let the PCs do what they want, and you will be pleasantly surprised. But on the flipside, chances are you'll end up with an evil campaign.
-DM states that they are running a political game with higher level (6th) noble born characters from different neighboring countries. Specifically asks for at least one player (I said yes) to make a primarily social focused character so that, I quote "...if anything goes poorly and war gets declared they can try to talk it away."
You find out this is in fact a bad DM when session one can be broken down into these pieces.
1 - describes a ball that we are all attending at the request of an NPC in a similar nobility rank to each of the characters.
2 - arbitrates that, despite having rings of sustenance and other ways to detect/prevent food born magic or poisons, we have all eaten or drank something and (without a roll of any kind) are rendered unconscious.
3 - Describes an entirely empty estate, save for the PCs, their belongings, and a single NPC to inform us that an army led by the host of the ball is marching to war with intent to conquer all of our kingdoms.
4 - A "chase" scene in which 5 characters on fast horses attempt to outrun an army of thousands hauling siege engines and large amounts of supplies, but instead find somehow find themselves further and further behind despite pushing on for 3 days with minimal rest and the army only starting with a single days march lead.
5 - The characters finally stop for a full night's rest, and a single ninja attacks during my character's watch. My character was killed instantly. The other players then had to literally convince the DM that even though it was a single sneak attack that killed me that there would be at least some sort of sound that would allow them at least a chance to wake up... which just resulted in the Ninja running off and diving into a river to be deemed entirely untrackable without having even bothered to engage any other character in combat.
Saddly that game continued on for quite a few sessions after that, and even sadder still - I made another character... I let myself feel insulted by the DM's treatment of the game, and decided I would put his ability to kill off characters to the test with a destructively built fighter (for the survivability) and later went on to take down 9 Ogres single handedly at 5th level... but not quite fast enough to save the life of the other character who was swarmed by 20 3rd level human fighters while by himself.
After pointing this out we got stat increases and the DMPCs ran off to have their own adventure (but not until after one of them got married to one of the PCs)
The best was when the GM got jealous of one player's wife (the guy who ran the PC that married the DMPC)
And what is wrong with SOs?
And what is wrong with SOs?
It's fine so long as the relationship is put on hold as soon as the DM's screen goes up. I tend to observe two types of annoying behavior when one member of a relationship is the DM and the other's a player:
1. The character becomes a Mary Sue; the party absolutely cannot succeed without him/her and, indeed, the game revolves around him/her. NPCs who scoff and ignore the other PCs scrape and bow at the SOPCs feet.
2. The SOPC gets every. Useful. Magic. Item. In. The. Game. He/She has the +5 armor and weapons while the rest of the PCs are stooging around with +2s; whether the +5s come early or the +2s late is about 50/50.
and alternately:
3. D&D stops every half hour for a game of tonsil hockey.
Anyways, new entry:
The DM who makes all his plans and assumptions (and sometimes house rules) based not on the background and personality you put down for your character, but on his own stereotypical views of the races and classes involved. I recently decided to try out a druid, and my DM put a bunch of human loggers in front of me, and was shocked, nay stunned, that I didn't immediately go into eco-terrorist mode. I've had DMs in previous editions that forbade two PC wizards from exchanging spells in their books, because 'all wizards are arrogant snobs who jealously guard their power blah blah'.
And that's secondary to a DM who was apparently so into Tolkien that he ruled that Dwarves had to make saving throws to not drink until unconscious if the opportunity presented itself, Halflings had to make saving throws if they were away from their home or go running back, and you had to make a saving throw or believe anything an elf (as a 'wise, elder' race) told you, even if it violated the evidence of your own senses. If an elf told you the sky was red and you blew the save, you would come to the conclusion that something was wrong with your eyes.
If your DM discourages RPing- of any kind.
2 - "you step through a portal and arrive on the deck of the Starship Enterprise"
Both of these were the same DM in the same game using D&D. I've heard a few good thing about diceless systems, but D&D just isn't built that way.
I really don't like genre bending, especially without being told beforehand.
It didn't even last one session.
It's fine so long as the relationship is put on hold as soon as the DM's screen goes up. I tend to observe two types of annoying behavior when one member of a relationship is the DM and the other's a player:
1. The character becomes a Mary Sue; the party absolutely cannot succeed without him/her and, indeed, the game revolves around him/her. NPCs who scoff and ignore the other PCs scrape and bow at the SOPCs feet.
2. The SOPC gets every. Useful. Magic. Item. In. The. Game. He/She has the +5 armor and weapons while the rest of the PCs are stooging around with +2s; whether the +5s come early or the +2s late is about 50/50.
and alternately:
3. D&D stops every half hour for a game of tonsil hockey.
Anyways, new entry:
The DM who makes all his plans and assumptions (and sometimes house rules) based not on the background and personality you put down for your character, but on his own stereotypical views of the races and classes involved. I recently decided to try out a druid, and my DM put a bunch of human loggers in front of me, and was shocked, nay stunned, that I didn't immediately go into eco-terrorist mode. I've had DMs in previous editions that forbade two PC wizards from exchanging spells in their books, because 'all wizards are arrogant snobs who jealously guard their power blah blah'.
And that's secondary to a DM who was apparently so into Tolkien that he ruled that Dwarves had to make saving throws to not drink until unconscious if the opportunity presented itself, Halflings had to make saving throws if they were away from their home or go running back, and you had to make a saving throw or believe anything an elf (as a 'wise, elder' race) told you, even if it violated the evidence of your own senses. If an elf told you the sky was red and you blew the save, you would come to the conclusion that something was wrong with your eyes.
Gah, I hate it when the DM starts doing things like. We had a dm where my character's former brother of a monastery beating up on caravaners, and he expected me not to beat him into submission and dragged his sorry butt back to my monastery, but just to 'let him go'.
When I asked 'why' ... he was like "your sheet says Lawful Neutral" ....
"And What would beating him up and dragging his butt back to the monastery make me?"
"Hmm .. nevermind!"
Its like he had a template of what every lawful neutral character would do at any moment, and he just questioned you whenever you slightly deviated from it.
It got irritating ...
So I made him an 'insane' character that had pretty much no alignment because, well, he was completely nuts.
Believed that if any person carrying any increment of 10 silver pieces on him (no matter what amount) was a demon ....
He also believed that a cadre of yellow-war-painted elephants wanted to eat him for lunch ... And I used to roll a d20 whenever he talked to any random person on the roads to see if he beat them up regardless of the situation ... because they were a giant elephant in disguise <.<
That being said, he was a pretty cool guy actually. Its just that he was a bit of a control freak. Way too neat and orderly.... the problem is, our group liked to wing things ... and expected a campaign world where we could do such things.
SO he had planned every event, to happen exactly as he wanted them to.
I can't really criticise him, because If I were a DM I would focus on one particular arc way too heavily, neglecting many possible arcs .. and get really unhappy when the pcs somehow manage to elude it completely. And of course you cant just tell them
"I SPENT 20 HOURS WRITING THIS MAGNUM OPUS!"
A: because they'll think you're insane and back away very quickly, and B: they'll hate you for it.
A DM who considers the rules important enough to waste game time looking stuff up when he can just houserule in the name of fun, move on, and look it up later.
A DM who considers the rules important enough to waste game time looking stuff up when he can just houserule in the name of fun, move on, and look it up later.
If the DM is well-versed in the rules, I don't think the delay would be too long. It's better to know in important situations.
When the players aren't playing the game "The One True Way" the DM wants them to play, the DM forces them into playing his way.
Whats the point of playing pen and paper then? :x Might as well play a shooter <.<
Anyways, new entry:
The DM who makes all his plans and assumptions (and sometimes house rules) based not on the background and personality you put down for your character, but on his own stereotypical views of the races and classes involved. I recently decided to try out a druid, and my DM put a bunch of human loggers in front of me, and was shocked, nay stunned, that I didn't immediately go into eco-terrorist mode. I've had DMs in previous editions that forbade two PC wizards from exchanging spells in their books, because 'all wizards are arrogant snobs who jealously guard their power blah blah'.
And that's secondary to a DM who was apparently so into Tolkien that he ruled that Dwarves had to make saving throws to not drink until unconscious if the opportunity presented itself, Halflings had to make saving throws if they were away from their home or go running back, and you had to make a saving throw or believe anything an elf (as a 'wise, elder' race) told you, even if it violated the evidence of your own senses. If an elf told you the sky was red and you blew the save, you would come to the conclusion that something was wrong with your eyes.
I seem to recall someone mentioning this exact situation before. Was it you?
I seem to recall someone mentioning this exact situation before. Was it you?
Probably. It's one of the ones I tend to trot out every time one of the 'bad DM' threads crop up.
Or as I've said before, every monster knew how to move to avoid any chance of opportunity attacks. Some like hobgoblins, I expect, others like animals, not so much. It was frustrating.
DMs that make adventures where all your abilities, weapons and powers are either useless or less effective, because they think this will make it challenging.
You basically end up having to hack everything down with your rusty dagger if you are a wizard. If you are a fighter, you have to kick it to death. Rogues are never able to get sneak attacks in.
The sister to this DMs that write adventures, that never take the parties abilities into considerations. The rogue that is good at athletics, there is never an encounter that involves this, a cliff to climb, a pit to jump, or whatever. This also includes getting items which are basically useless.
One campaign I was in, we all received relic items at some point. Most of them didn't even have a bonus to hit. So I got a rapier that didn't have any bonus to hit, unless I missed. Then I got a +1. If I continued to miss, it would go up a +, up till +5. At level 15 this doubled. I figured out that to actually use this ability, I would be doing less damage. So it was it's main ability, that I never wanted to us. Great. I was better off with the keen rapier since it had a wider crit range.
Players: Why haven't we noticed (insert obvious room feature, notable NPC, platoon of town gaurds, etc)?
DM: you didn't ask
The above happened to me several times with a particular DM. It was very annoying.
this x 765
the problem is now, i ask about everything, and my dm gets annoyed i ask so many questions
This DM hates the cliche of the evil overlord brought down after they monologue about their evil plans, so he goes overboard in the opposite direction. The PC's have no clue as to the whereabouts of the MNV and finding out is nearly impossible. Meanwhile he (and his minions) are absolutely omniscient about the party's location at all times and attack and harass the party whenever they choose. Captured minions refuse to talk no matter how painful the torture. ESP spells fail to work. This goes on until the DM is satisfied that he's abundantly shown just how damn smart the MNV is and is ready for the final showdown, which the MNV invariably escapes from after nearly being defeated.
"It's just one long gaming story...."
The DM fills his world with past characters and NPC's, and the focus of the game isn't on the PC's but how darn cool all those other guys are and regaling a captive audience about their exploits. Usually accompanied by an SO or a long-time player who is familiar with said characters and their stories and most game sessions involve the DM and player reliving past glories while the other players look at each other and wonder when they get to do something other than carry water for the cool kids.
"It's just one long gaming story...."
The DM fills his world with past characters and NPC's, and the focus of the game isn't on the PC's but how darn cool all those other guys are and regaling a captive audience about their exploits. Usually accompanied by an SO or a long-time player who is familiar with said characters and their stories and most game sessions involve the DM and player reliving past glories while the other players look at each other and wonder when they get to do something other than carry water for the cool kids.
My group has characters going back 12+ years now that new players have no idea about. We still use them in plots, they are all epic+, have magic items up the wazoo, my rogue rose himself through sheer will (once), but there is an unspoken rule that THEY WILL NEVER FIGHT!
GM: you see a dilapidated ship in the middle of a lake.
Me: like... a sea ship, in the middle of a lake?
GM: yes.
Me+ 5 other players: i think we will just leave it alone.
GM: the allure of treasure and adventure compel you to go!
Me+ a few others: really, we dont wanna go
GM: you are still compelled in the name of riches.
three minutes later, guy dead from level drain (lamest way to die) another from con drain (not much better really), someone has mummy rot (did not get their second save btw, and the mummy had over 140 hp, after i calculated DR) and the treasure consisted of a necklace of disease immunity (ruled not to protect from the mummy rot) and a brooche of shielding, which every main enemy in the game had.
Whats the point of playing pen and paper then? :x Might as well play a shooter <.<
The defense rests.
Or when the Dm hardly ever letd you fight, and when he does, they have ridiculously low hp, and are really weak. You never get any challenge. And just incase, A dmpc who has amazing healing capablilities.
The DM sets up his campaign so that the only way the party has of discovering the plot line is by listening to the DM read the 6 pages of monologue he wrote for this NPC (that just so happens to have a near identical description to the character he played in the last game you DMed, but is a lich), but expects you and your character to both sit and listen to the NPC without interrupting.
...and then the DM calls a halt to the whole campaign (and ever being a DM again) because the player were interested in the story going on and tried to turn the situation into a dialogue with the NPC...
That's really the worst if you ask me, effectively calling an end to your game because the players wanted to interact with a massively important and knowledgeable NPC you had come up with.
For example, the PC fantasy rapist: One of my friends told me of how a DM she once played with would, in every campaign, cause her character to fall in love with his DMPC, often through magical means (particularly mind control). In one way, flattering; In a hundred others, creeeeeeeepy...
Same friend has also experienced the overwriter who produces reams of backstory for each session and expects his players to read it--Kudos for putting in the effort and the man hours, but getting passive aggressive and mopey when they don't want to do homework to play the weekly game session is no way to run a game. Also, he apparently had control issues to boot. :/
Ag. Pronounced like "Agony". Unfortunately, my friends have all fallen into the belief that no one can be...told what playing with Ag is like...you have to see it for yourself. That or they put the experiences out of memory as much as possible. From what I've heard, Ag had no grasp whatsoever of "level" or "game balance", oftentimes throwing level 20 items to a third level party, while at the same time this is combined with a tenuous grasp of reality itself, often making bizarre rules on the fly that seem to contradict the laws of existence that we mere mortals take for granted.
Personally, I've experienced several archetypal bad DMs, primarily of the "DM vs. player mentality" variety. Otherwise, though, I count myself fortunate that I grew up with a cool gaming group in high school and we've all been good friends ever since. :D
The Master Ninja Villain:
This DM hates the cliche of the evil overlord brought down after they monologue about their evil plans, so he goes overboard in the opposite direction. The PC's have no clue as to the whereabouts of the MNV and finding out is nearly impossible. Meanwhile he (and his minions) are absolutely omniscient about the party's location at all times and attack and harass the party whenever they choose. Captured minions refuse to talk no matter how painful the torture. ESP spells fail to work. This goes on until the DM is satisfied that he's abundantly shown just how damn smart the MNV is and is ready for the final showdown, which the MNV invariably escapes from after nearly being defeated.
Holy hell. Did all the normal villains and 'non-smarts' amount to nothing, speak with a dull affectation and ignore common sense as it applies to everything from business to tactics?
Also, in my experience- When he is not me. I was so disgusted with the DM's I have had I work my ass off to give my players an awesome campaign and i've never looked back.
In fact, it's actually really cool when they get attached to them...
But, on topic, the worst DM I had liked to pit us against monsters and enemies with a CR equal to our party members' levels added together. Then he would tell us off and act like we did something stupid when we inevitably lost.
Of course, I wouldn't know he was doing this if it wasn't MY monster manual he was borrowing. Because he didn't have one, apparently. If I hadn't read that thing end to end, I wouldn't have known. He also frequently had "Let's see if..." non-canon battles, like using a session to pit our characters against a Chaos Beast (Honestly, I can't remember the name. But it was the big shape-shifting thing that could turn you into a puddle of goo.) and a Tarrasque.
Oh, and the rogue was ALWAYS first to die, because he'd always assume he was taking point because "That's what rogues do!".
"Oh, I didn't bother to read the 4th edition rules - my assistant DM is going to handle all that stuff so I can work on my plot..."
"I didn't know longbows did d10... I think I'm going to change that - the game designers must have have been watching too many movies. A longbow shouldn't do as much damage as an axe..."
"...but I changed it to a silvered battleaxe because I found out they didn't have masterwork weapons in 4th ed. any more."
And gives a player a plot device instead of a magic item - a spyglass with a treasure map inside.
Hasn't read the 4th ed. treasure rules so, after the party argues over who has to take the amulet of protection +1 he randomly rolled, he instead decides that every time the party gets a magic item he'll just roll randomly to see which player gets it, then roll again to see how many levels above the character's level it is, and have them pick an item of the appropriate level. And thus no one ever gets really useful first or second level items like basic +1 weapons or armor.
Has decided to keep track of the party's "assets" rather than giving the party treasure - often gives the party gold only to later tell them they can't spend it because they need it for some upcoming plot element like bribing an official or hiring transportation.
Glosses over everything that's not directly involved with The Plot - each session basically amounts to : "Here's the really awesome set-up, then you talk to some important npcs that I can't be bothered to give names to, and now I'll draw up the really cool battle I've got planned, where the party starts over here, and the bad guys are here, and now the very helpful npc will "suggest" how you should fight it, because I've got it all planned out and there's certain unspoken "victory conditions" that have nothing to do with kicking the monsters' asses, and I came up with some really cool escape plans for the bad guys, who'll get away regardless of what you do, so now that the npc's told you what to do and the party's discussed how to do it, that's what you're going to do, right?"
Often interrupts himself with, "Oh, and then there's this other important thing I forgot to tell you about..."
Starts packing up after the session, and while people are packing up, talking to each other, and/or in the process of leaving starts talking about important upcoming campaign details, often dropping two or three sessions worth of storyline on the party in five minutes of what started as a one-on-one conversation with a random player.
Went from a great friend and excellant DM, to a drug addled, paranoid, hyper-conservative, borderline racist and mysogonist, completely homophobic stubborn near madman who follows a twisted sense of morality with blind zeal and no compromise to the point of wondering if he suffers from a mental disorder.
It's like if Rorschach was your DM. And I am not exaggerating.
He didn't used to be like that, which is what makes it all the worse. He used to be a good friend, open minded, mentally balanced and great to hang around with, having a well fleshed out world that I loved being in despite it being First Edition. Sure we had different social and political beliefs but we got along. But over the years he got more and more paranoid, withdrawn from society and even dangerous.
I stopped having fun a while ago, but I stuck it out hoping it would get better. Instead the games became more crazy, incoherent, and all out excuses to smoke weed and talk about weed, when not being B-tards.
Not all his fault really, but when I left blaming it on the weed which made me uncomfortable (I don't smoke weed) he apparently went on something of a rant about how smoking weed is his right as a person.
Maybe it is, but it would have been nice to have been missed enough to give him pause.
To me that's when you know you have a crappy DM.
Bad: "You see an armored group of Knights of the Flame." "My paladin attacks!" "You lose your LG alignment and paladin powers. " "What?? Why?"
Good: "You see an armored group of Knights of the Flame." "My paladin attacks!" "You do know these knights are a lawful good order right?" "Oh..."
I would say this is true for ANY campaign world, as every single one I have encountered has lots of fluffy details people forget. This has happened so many times to my PCs, I've lost count.
Is it just me, or is this sort of DM often upset if you try to ask questions about the game, stating that you are asking too many questions?
Maybe it is, but it would have been nice to have been missed enough to give him pause.
To me that's when you know you have a crappy DM.
If this is just recent, give it time, you will be missed.
Back OT: I had this sci-fi character that I had told the GM I wanted to make as the fastest draw in the universe. He told me that according to the game, a 5d6 on the draw was the highest I could go, and because of other aspects it was something I'd have to work for. Cool, no problem. I worked my way through three levels, dropping everything I had on that skill, while allocating enough in the other skills to not have a flat character. Cool! I'm the fastest draw in the universe! Enter a new player, level 1, same race, etc. I welcome him to the game and we compare character sheets right away. I see his starting draw skill is 6d6! I asked him how he managed that, and he said the GM told him that it was the highest allowed score in the game. I told him the story the GM handed me and we both confronted the GM. He came up with several half-assed excuses inlcuding "I just now houseruled it." We pushed until I got 7d6 on my draw, and afterwards I learned there was no limit on the fast draw skill. We never went back and formed our own game.
He didn't used to be like that, which is what makes it all the worse. ... But over the years he got more and more paranoid, withdrawn from society and even dangerous.
Dude, what you describe doesn't sound like marijuana to me. It sounds like mild schizophrenia, almost textbook. You may want to try to find the guy some medical help. He could be a danger to himself and those around him, but there are treatments that can help him a lot.
I do sometimes wonder if he has some sort of psychological issues, and he might, but if I were to try to get him to get help, he would flatly refuse, and is way too stubborn for me to convince him of anything.
This wasnt a sudden shift in character, this was slow degradation. I dont think it is schizophrenia at all because he doesnt SHIFT personality, he just has changed over the years for the worst.
I do sometimes wonder if he has some sort of psychological issues, and he might, but if I were to try to get him to get help, he would flatly refuse, and is way too stubborn for me to convince him of anything.
Schizophrenia is not multiple personalities; that's a total misconception that's carried on by pop culture. It does often manifest as a perversion and alteration of character, sometimes suddenly but usually over a course of time. One of the common types is paranoid schizophrenia, wherein a normal person's character traits become exaggerated over time until they become dominating, and the person becomes dangerous and no longer clearly understands the world around them. Like I said, exactly as you've described. Google can help you more here than a single scientist in a different field, but you should seriously look this up, and perhaps talk to your own family doctor and ask for advice on how you can help your friend.
Less Tangential: A DMPC who becomes a GOD. As in, quite literally a demi-god with divine rank.
And ruling that a fire elemental familiar of a sorcerer would set everything it touched on fire, making it worthless as a companion. And when the sorcerer decides to take a earth elemental, have the elemental be pissy that it wasn't the sorcerer's first choice. Or letting a sorcerer take only fire powers for RP reasons and then send them against red dragons.
In retrospect, I probably should have been more suspicious if we went after a red dragon at level 5.
- Plays according to a houserule concocted because of a misunderstanding of the real rules, even when this is shown to be gamebreaking (ex: opportunity attacks when entering threatened squares, with the result that for the first few levels, every time the barbarians enter combat they drop to negative hit points)
- Hitting the party with brutally difficult encounters and then, after each session, mentioning how much the damage rolls had to be fudged because he doesn't like to kill characters below 3rd level.
- Interrupting an enjoyable in-character conversation with 'could you all just focus on the game now?' and generally demanding to be the center of attention (also, threatening to ban laptops from the table for the same reason, even though 3/4 of the group uses digital character sheets, and one even bought a $2000 tablet PC expressly for that purpose).
- Declaring that definitive PC abilities just don't work on the Big Bad, without rolling to resist them (ex: 'Cleric: I use hold monster on the vampire.' 'GM, without rolling a save: He laughs at you.' Now, to be fair, this was a game based on Final Fantasy, in which status effects never work on bosses... but still, annoying).
- Not fixing obvious misprints in the adventure and just running it as written, even if it makes the encounter way too easy (ex: in the Shadowdale module there is a drow spellcaster who only has evocation and conjuration spells, which don't work well in that area. Rather than assume the spellcaster had the Shadow Weave feat and thus could actually use her spells, the GM played it absolutely by the book, with the result that we completely stomped the encounter because the save DCs were so low that we couldn't possibly fail them).
- Scripting unwinnable final encounters (I'll admit, I've done this one: I needed to bring my Rebellion Era star wars game forward to the Legacy Era and turn one of the characters to the dark side, so I had the big bad freeze all of the characters but two in carbonite and had the one who was supposed to turn do the honors on the last one. In my defense, it wouldn't actually have bothered anyone except that they were all tired and inclined to take offense, and the next session they were quite understanding about the whole thing).
I really think laptops have no place at the player's side of the table. Print out the sheets. I'm an avid video game player, but geez unplug once in a while.
^True story, btw.
They are a distraction from the game
Only if the GM isn't doing his job properly (this one wasn't, but still expected to be the center of attention in spite of the fact that his pedantic style and the necessity of traversing the entire dungeon inch by inch because we know that he likes to throw lethal saveless traps at us was boring us all to tears).
I really think laptops have no place at the player's side of the table.
I, on the other hand, refuse to play if I can't use mine. I've wasted too many paper character sheets over the years, and recycled printer paper is neither easy to find nor cheap. Plus wear and tear on mechanical pencil lead and erasers... and, of course, the weight I have to carry to each session is cut by half at least.
Half?! How much paper/pencils do you bring?! My laptop is about 4 pounds. I can't imagine bringing 8 pounds in office supplies to a play session if I was a player...
I think he meant that he avoided bringing his books...
Only if the GM isn't doing his job properly
Addressing the problem head on is doing my job properly.
I, on the other hand, refuse to play if I can't use mine. I've wasted too many paper character sheets over the years, and recycled printer paper is neither easy to find nor cheap. Plus wear and tear on mechanical pencil lead and erasers... and, of course, the weight I have to carry to each session is cut by half at least.
Your arguments sound really weak to me. And if your character is so complicated that you need more than three books at a game session, you may have a problem with power-gaming. But if that works for you and your DM, have fun with it.
Your arguments sound really weak to me. And if your character is so complicated that you need more than three books at a game session, you may have a problem with power-gaming. But if that works for you and your DM, have fun with it.
I kind of get your point, but as someone who enjoys building characters out of the ordinary, I tend to need many books, for example, when the hybrid rules will be coming out, I will probably be in need of at least 2 PHBs, 1 or 2 (possibly 2) Power books and maybe even some other supplement, like AV or EPG, since I really like alchemical items and enjoy toying around with wondrous items, etc.
In other words, there's really interesting stuff in every book, and with some wild imagination, some people may get to mix them around.
And if your character is so complicated that you need more than three books at a game session, you may have a problem with power-gaming.
Just because someone uses 3+ books to build/create a character doesn't necessarily mean they're a powergamer or may have a problem with powergaming.
It's not uncommon to find a character with a feat selection/progression that includes feats from several different books, as an example.
Addressing the problem head on is doing my job properly.
Your arguments sound really weak to me. And if your character is so complicated that you need more than three books at a game session, you may have a problem with power-gaming. But if that works for you and your DM, have fun with it.
You make power gaming sound like a drug addiction.
Plus, if my DM wants a rule clarified, I can just do a quick search and tell him so he doesn't have to hold up the game and look it up himself. It's quite handy.
Anyways, this thread is a good read, I'm learning lots of don'ts.
Back on topic:
Gotcha!
Any DM that seems extremely satisfied that something has 'beaten' the party. Not because that made for a great story development, but because he, the DM, has outsmarted you, the players. Isn't he the best? You may now revel in his awe.
About the laptop discussion: As a player, I use a laptop exclusively. I've never found it a distraction; on the contrary, it seems to alleviate most of the bookkeeping and allows me to focus on the game. The only thing I print out are power cards for quick reference.
Plus, if my DM wants a rule clarified, I can just do a quick search and tell him so he doesn't have to hold up the game and look it up himself. It's quite handy.
Anyways, this thread is a good read, I'm learning lots of don'ts.
Laptops are ultimate distraction machines.
If you are using a laptop, then you have to be disciplined and mature enough to leave the screen and keyboard alone when it would otherwise detract from the game. Chatting on IM to someone not involved is just plain rude for instance.
If you can behave, and have the space, then there should be no problem.
Mind you I always did, the case was so heavy I had to leave about 15 minutes early to walk down the road to make sure I didn't miss my bus, and I kept a leather glove with it to stop my hands getting sore.
:D :D :D
I've had one or two experiences with this sort of thing.
How about when your DM decides to bring a rubber band gun with him to use as a tool for getting the attention of players that appear to not be listening at the moment by shooting them in the face and saying "pay attention or leave" in an incredibly snide tone.Yeah, that's always lovely. Never dealt with that particular fellow again.
Oh, and how about if your DM insists on reading a novel -and quite obviously using the chapters as inspiration for the happenings in the game- during every game session. I swear to all that is good and wonderful in Odin's beard, I never wanted to play any of the scenes presented in "Naked Lunch" or "Where the Red Fern Grows", EVER.
Take care, friends.
Laptops are ultimate distraction machines.
If you are using a laptop, then you have to be disciplined and mature enough to leave the screen and keyboard alone when it would otherwise detract from the game. Chatting on IM to someone not involved is just plain rude for instance.
If you can behave, and have the space, then there should be no problem.
Exactly. The issue should be more about what they are doing with the laptop than the laptop itself. I see nothing wrong with asking players to shut off IM applications and close browser windows.
Myself, I find it a huge convenience and I'm glad my DM doesn't mind.
Seriously, I would say close it or set it aside unless actively looking up a rule. Like, a separate table, if not in another room.
Our group took pity on a young NPC who was being used as a tool by the enemy. One party member went as far as to nearly give his life in our attempt to take back the NPC. The DM had planned her finale around brutally killing this child, and was surprised that we actually wanted to try and save the little boy whose miserable upbringing she'd gleefully detailed. So she had the lawful-good organization we were sent by steal him from us and then begin a series of painful vivisections until we were forced into mercy-killing him.
She used to write out long monologues for her pet NPCs. All of the good guys were total
, who treated the party with sheer contempt, most especially the NPCs who were meant to train and mentor us. She liked her bad guys though, so they were all charming, intelligent individuals who routinely wandered into the knight's stronghold and chewed them out on philosophical issues while the party just sat back and watched her talk to herself.She played out her personal problems at the table. We were able to bring down a rival faction because "one of them wasn't being truthful, and secrets hurt friendships." Her boyfriend spent one session continually harassing another player, but she liked how in-character he was. If you didn't find ways to make your character play out her quest exactly as she had planned, you were accused of trying to make her feel bad, and she would completely halt play.
She converted a character from one of her stories into a major NPC in her game. This NPC wouldn't actually show up until the last session, but we had lots of "cut-scenes" of what her brave knight was up to. Also, we were paired with another NPC who worshiped the ground said knight walked upon, so when we weren't "watching" her being amazing beyond belief, we were listening to fawning adoration about how this knight had given up her nobility to fight against evil doers, taking down a brutal demon at only 14 with no concern for her safety, bravely baring the scars of that confrontation despite the scorn of the other knights, and with a life so filled with betrayal could she ever truly love again?
All in all, it was a valuable learning experience. :rolleye2:
Basically, she wanted to be a writer, and created her sessions like writing a play.
Ugh, the "writer" DM. I've played with one like that. He used to chew us out if we didn't roleplay our characters right. It got so bad that one of the players would ask "Ok so what does my character do now?" and keep asking until the DM got the point (which took 3 game sessions).
The moment they say anything like 'I am god here', you know you're gonna have problems.
I had a DM who said that once. It was to be the start of a very bad string of games.
I dunno...
I wouldn't call him/her wrong, but rather maybe... extreme, silly, overly imaginative, or even, perhaps, a bad DM.
I agree with HATED here. It is his game world after all. Maybe elves end up being a big plot point or something. Maybe he has a reason. Maybe he is, as HATED said, just being silly and maybe a bad DM, but he can't really be wrong about his own game world.
And that's another crappy DM, the race biased DM.
3.5, teammate rolled an entire turn of like 5 hits, missed everyone of them, and couldn't figure out why. I looked at his dice, and stated "dude, you're rolling a d12, shouldn't that be a d20?" The DM was sitting at the head of the table smirking.
When suddenly you're betrothed to another PC. [RAILROAD]
Different DM, same group. I'm playing a Damaran Paladin, and suddenly, a dwarf approaches us with a scroll addressed to me. Written inside were the words: "Darling Daughter, we're forming an alliance with this dwarven clan. To cement these bonds, we've arranged a marriage between our child and the child of their chief." First off, I don't personally care for dwarves, second I dislike being railroaded like that (and have subsequently told every future DM about the experience in order to avoid it), and third, personally, unless I say so, I don't care to have a romantic involvement IC or OOC with tablemates. Had it been an NPC, possibly, maybe. Sprung on me with no notice, and infront of the entire group, forget it. I declined to say yay or nay (my answer was nay), but resulted in finding a nice PrC that required I kept my maidenhood intact.
Inconsistant XP experience
Same Damaran Paladin, we played for an all day session, at level zero. After stumbling around with no skills, doing as much damage to ourselves as well as the stupid kobolds, we level to level one. End of session. I have to miss the next session b/c of a family gathering or something. Mega-XP score, most everyone in the group is almost at level two or is level two. I'm back: RP session, I get maybe 100XP. They gamed weekly, every Sat from like 10-11am til 9-10pm. I miss the next session. They mega-XP and level again. So everyone is level 3 or almost. The game only lasted about 6 wks, by which time I managed to make it to 750XP, while everyone else got up to level 3 or 4.
When they get upset that you made a good character
My brother, his wife, and a friend of theirs wanted to make a game. Their friend was going to DM. I made four characters, manually rolled up their stats, starting gold etc. Having the most experience gaming in the group, I ran two characters, a Paladin and a Ranger. Created a bard for my brother, and a fighter for my sister-in-law. The DM couldn't hit us. The lowest AC was like a 16 with dodge (17), and that was the ranger. The next AC was like 17, then 19 and 20. Then I rolled frikken AWESOME on my move silently check bypassing the hoard of bats in otherwise noisy armor (Paladin) and swiftly moved in to tackle the boss monster. Coup de grace, stunned, took down monster in one turn before he had a chance to stumble to being fully alert.
When a DM pulls a lame and very contrived houserule out of his ass at the last second to stop a player from doing something he didn't account for instead of just being a man and asking them not to do that because it would totally derail a campaign.
I don't know, both of these seem like bad options to me.
When a DM pulls a lame and very contrived houserule out of his ass at the last second to stop a player from doing something he didn't account for instead of just being a man and adjusting his campaign accordingly without a fuss, or the players even catching on that he had to make an adjustment to his plans..
Fixed that for you.
Fixed that for you.
Much better.
All that after being railroaded into trying to steal an uber powerfull artifact from a dwarven city while being accompanied by a ¨friendly¨ NPC who we all knew was a traitor but were still forced to have with us and couldn´t kill (we were told that if we tried the city would punish us).
All this to finally find the secret chamber of the world shattering artifact being guarded by a JUVENILE DRAGON (the crying one) and OH SURPRISE be betrayed by the NPC.
For the record this same guy also said once that a DM can never admit to be wrong cause it would destroy a game.
Such as cleave. Our fighter used a biggass sword to cut down a goblin and was expecting to cut down another. Dm was like Uh.. No. You are only level 1.
I was playing a firebased wizard at this time, and I had to roll to hit with spells like burning hands. Even worse, he wouldn't tell me what die i needed to roll to be able to hit, or what.. if any, modifires where added to the hit.
Or if you have Me as a DM. Because i'll be playing to kill but i will only use proper in game knowlage the monsters should have.. or be a total wuss. I can't figure out how to hit the center area.
For the record this same guy also said once that a DM can never admit to be wrong cause it would destroy a game.
This is a common misconception based on a misreading of "Rule 0."
Most people think that Rule 0 reads, "The DM is always right."
What it really means is, "What the DM says, goes."
I've personally found that it's way easier for me to admit to being wrong and then fix my mistakes openly rather than try to cover them up out of some misplaced sense of pride. :P
when he kills your character 2 times... with gundams in a steam punk campaign... and says its your fault....
If your DM has a graveyard of PC's (A wall full of dead character sheets) and there's more than 20 PCs there, you have a crappy DM.
How about when they tell you about how awesome and intricate their story line is.
Then you retort with "Well, how do you know we'll have characters that would chose to follow that, and in that order?".
The response: "Oh, it hardly matters. Its going to happen regardless of what you guys do. I know how I want my game to end"
My second favorite is a DM describing how your characters now think, feel or act. Literally:
"Your drow character now realizes he's been evil for his whole life, and wants to spend a lifetime doing good acts in the name of the holy drow godess. "
"er, no I dont? I'm a devout follower of Lloth. Besides, I'm not evil, being hard on people is just the way of things!"
"Nope, you spend a year worshipping this new godess. Now you think Lloth should be stopped and you're NG instead of NE"
*Haven't had to do this for a while.*
I begin my entry into the DM's game with a character specifically created to demonstrate that Such-N-Such the Class doesn't have to mean Such-N-Such the Concept (a guy gets his powers from a god that manifest themselves as the mechanics of the Fighter class, i.e., Paladin-the-Concept, Fighter-the-Class, etc.).
Any resistance to this based on something besides specific story requirements (Gods, Religion as a World Force, etc. not existing in the world and therefore not allowing for someone to claim Divine Intervention as a source of power) means that the playstyle of the DM (and probably the group) is probably not for me.
When there are explicit rules on a thing and they simply decide to make a "DM call" despite being shown the rules.
and I know this is off-topic and i want to start a thread about it but how do you guys feel about the DM actually knowing what feats and powers have? I know it might seem like a weird question but if you have baad DM the last thing you want is for them to know every spell and feat your character has because they will just build encounters to subvert all this. like right now i'm playing a 3rd edition game and though i'm positive it wasn't intentional all the most recent enemies I have faced are immune to my most useful spells(i'm a beguiler) because they have too many HD.
D&D in real time: you have six seconds to do all your actions, or you are considerered activated for that turn.
When your DM doesn't know all your feats, powers, spells, and magic items.
I begin my entry into the DM's game with a character specifically created to demonstrate that Such-N-Such the Class doesn't have to mean Such-N-Such the Concept (a guy gets his powers from a god that manifest themselves as the mechanics of the Fighter class, i.e., Paladin-the-Concept, Fighter-the-Class, etc.).
I love being able to pull that off. I had a Dwarven Fighter who PrC into Dwarven Defender - but he always refferred to himself as a "Giantslayer" (got darned good at it, too!). To the PC, he was no dwarven defender...just a particularly rugged Giantslayer.
Yet, often when introduced by an NPC, the GM would say "And this is Kel, the famous Dwarven Defender..."
I'd have to break in with "Ach laddie, ye daft? I be the famous GIANTSLAYER! Get it right ya git!"
Great DM, just forgetful, I guess :P
When your DM doesn't know all your feats, powers, spells, and magic items.
Whoa there, buddy. I don't think so. With all the other crap that Dm's have to worry about, being up on every single stat or bonus that a PC has is just too much work. A working knoweldge of the general capabilities of a PC is fine, but I am not going to memorize your whole fraking sheet. That's YOUR job.
The Evangelist
This DM is a devout member of their church, and it leaks into the game. Their campaign has only one good god, which coincidentally has the same name, alignment, and purpose as the DM's god. Thus, the only good clerics in his campaign are members of his church. He's replicated his church in detail in his campaign, and anybody disobeying the dogma of his church is assessed a -2 cumulative penalty to anything they do, including but not limited to attack rolls, damage rolls, caster level checks, caster level, saving throws, and anything else requiring the rolling of dice. Apparently, his god is much more powerful than the other gods and has the power to affect everyone directly. He will only accept PCs who are of his church. Anyone else is automatically an NPC, so toe the line.
Both lazy and a little funny:
"DM Lightning! A healing potion hits your dead body and you revive!"
"Did any of my Alchemist's Fire survive?"
"DM Lightning! Any bottles that didn't break are destroyed!"
The Evangelist
This DM is a devout member of their church, and it leaks into the game. Their campaign has only one good god, which coincidentally has the same name, alignment, and purpose as the DM's god. Thus, the only good clerics in his campaign are members of his church. He's replicated his church in detail in his campaign, and anybody disobeying the dogma of his church is assessed a -2 cumulative penalty to anything they do, including but not limited to attack rolls, damage rolls, caster level checks, caster level, saving throws, and anything else requiring the rolling of dice. Apparently, his god is much more powerful than the other gods and has the power to affect everyone directly. He will only accept PCs who are of his church. Anyone else is automatically an NPC, so toe the line.
Any Dm that uses his game to preach his personal philosophy or political views is going to cause problems.
As I recall, we left his game after three weeks.
Any Dm that uses his game to preach his personal philosophy or political views is going to cause problems.
Agreed, but just had a member of my own church come up to me and say that her son plays D&D and bla bla bla (she saw I was reading a back issue of Dragon). Known her for a long time but haven't played it for a while and was wondering how people I knew at church would take it. Mind you, I've had earnest and very positive discussions at a church group about tarot cards, ending with the new vicar's wife asking me to show her how they work sometime, so this is not your average church we're talking about. That's Anglicans/Episcopalians for you.
There's hope yet...
I still remember telling two Hasidic rabbis back in college about D&D (It was 2E at the time.) to get their opinions on it since I've never heard of any Orthodox Judaic comment on the game. I didn't go into exact detail, but I mentioned clerics, multiple gods, casting spells, demons, and devils. The first one I spoke to didn't fully understand what I was talking about, but he saw no problem in playing the game. The second one was quite amused, and when I'd see him on the Sabbath would often ask me if I parted the Red Sea yet with the Part Water spell.
I still remember telling two Hasidic rabbis back in college about D&D (It was 2E at the time.) to get their opinions on it since I've never heard of any Orthodox Judaic comment on the game. I didn't go into exact detail, but I mentioned clerics, multiple gods, casting spells, demons, and devils. The first one I spoke to didn't fully understand what I was talking about, but he saw no problem in playing the game. The second one was quite amused, and when I'd see him on the Sabbath would often ask me if I parted the Red Sea yet with the Part Water spell.
I play in a Hasidic neighborhood, and I've seen a wide variety of opinions. We have two Hasidim, one boy and one girl, who actually play the game in our group, but we also see others come into the game store on a semi-weekly basis to berate the owner for encouraging frivolity.
How about the DM that knows he's going to get a whole bunch of phone traffic, and yet still decides to hold a session when he spends half of his time talking with his boss and others as soon as the slightest thing pops up? :x
If you're going to get a call every 10 minutes (And I'm being generous, on average it felt every 4) its better to cancel that day .... you're BUSY ... you're technically working <.<
It's like asking me to dm a session when im pouring drinks, or trying to write an essay <.<
When your DM doesn't know all your feats, powers, spells, and magic items.
Whoa there, buddy. I don't think so. With all the other crap that Dm's have to worry about, being up on every single stat or bonus that a PC has is just too much work. A working knoweldge of the general capabilities of a PC is fine, but I am not going to memorize your whole fraking sheet. That's YOUR job.
QFT.
When you start out as level five characters and in the very first room of the campaign is a Cloak of Eyes. Then when you're at dinner, someone steals it with absolutely no checks (no spots or anything, it was simply gone.)
When you start out as level five characters and the very first encounter, you're all killed by a Meteor Swarm. You wake up to find we're prisoners of Asmodeus and are railroaded into doing his bidding (even the Paladin, poor guy.)
When you start out as level five characters and in the very first room of the campaign is a Cloak of Eyes. Then when you're at dinner, someone steals it with absolutely no checks (no spots or anything, it was simply gone.)
When you start out as level five characters and the very first encounter, you're all killed by a Meteor Swarm. You wake up to find we're prisoners of Asmodeus and are railroaded into doing his bidding (even the Paladin, poor guy.)
That's pretty tough. Is this DM watching too many shows on the SciFi channel?
When your DM doesn't know all your feats, powers, spells, and magic items.Whoa there, buddy. I don't think so. With all the other crap that Dm's have to worry about, being up on every single stat or bonus that a PC has is just too much work. A working knoweldge of the general capabilities of a PC is fine, but I am not going to memorize your whole fraking sheet. That's YOUR job.
Clearly, this was a tongue in cheek reply to the guy two posts above mine who wanted to keep powers and feats secret from his DM.
That being said, you really should have a copy of every character sheet and not be surprised by anything the players whip out.
If you use CB, either posting it on a personal forums or emailing it helps out better. At my table, we're running two laptops, and a netbook.
Better yet, I could just send him the file, and he can pull it up on his own CB.
*** You know you have a crappy DM, when they get flustered why the party isn't challenged.***
When your DM doesn't know all your feats, powers, spells, and magic items.Whoa there, buddy. I don't think so. With all the other crap that Dm's have to worry about, being up on every single stat or bonus that a PC has is just too much work. A working knoweldge of the general capabilities of a PC is fine, but I am not going to memorize your whole fraking sheet. That's YOUR job.
Clearly, this was a tongue in cheek reply to the guy two posts above mine who wanted to keep powers and feats secret from his DM.
That being said, you really should have a copy of every character sheet and not be surprised by anything the players whip out.
My most enjoyable campaign in 3.5 never had me checking what spells the PCs could do, what they were immune to, etc. I and especially my monsters, were constantly shocked but there were so many different paths, bad guys, and encounters that I never had my day ruined by a death spell. I guess the trick is not planning monsters or encounters to 'manage' a PCs abilities, but to make the fight 'manageable' when they are using all their characters tricks (and actually surprising monsters that haven't scouted them for days). When one of their friends finally sprung a surprise and was ready for every PC trick,... it was damn funny.