A couple weeks ago, one of the dungeon masters talked to me said he saw me fuding a roll. I told him what he thought was a 2, was actually a 12. I went on to explain that he was sitting right next to me, I was rolling on the table and anyone could look at my rolls. It was dropped.
Last night after a roll, I noticed the same DM eyeing me. I asked him what the look was for and he said, "what did you do, roll a 2?" And I got pretty upset. The gameplay pretty much stopped because I told him what he could go do with himself. And it pretty much killed the mood, because we were in the biggest battle of the campaign (thus far). I didn't mean for that to happen, but I just had to stick up for myself.
Thing is, I even got new dice with larger-than-normal lettering on it, just so anyone and everyone could see my rolls. I roll on the tabletop whereas half of the other players roll in their laps, where no one can see. But yet, those guys are never questioned.
So, what would you do? I've tried talking to him before with, looks like, no luck. I'm about ( ) this close to just dropping out of the game we've been playing for several months now.
Thanks for any input!
I'd suggest rolling the die, saying out loud "I rolled a 12" (or whatever), and then leaving the dice sitting there for at least 5 seconds, so anyone who wants to can confirm you are right.
I know as a DM I have experienced players who roll and then scoop them up a half second later and it can seem fishy, especially when those players roll 15+ every time.
That being said, roll the dice. Let them sit. Gives him time to look at the dice and confirm you aren't a cheater.
Are you picking up dice immediately after rolling them, so other players (and the DM) have very little time to see what was rolled? That could be a cause of suspicion. I'd suggest rolling the die, saying out loud "I rolled a 12" (or whatever), and then leaving the dice sitting there for at least 5 seconds, so anyone who wants to can confirm you are right.
No, I don't scoop them up until I'm done with my turn. This sometimes takes a while since I'm adding a bunch of things. The only times we've ever announced aloud a roll was for natural 20s or 1s. And with natural 20s, we have a confirmation system where the people next to whoever rolls it confirmes the roll.
I'd ignore it. If you are rolling in the open I'd make sure you are announcing the modifiers that go with that roll. Of course he could then say you are fudging the modifiers
He can't say I'm fudging the modifiers since he keeps a table with all of our information on it: speed, abilities, attack modifiers, saves, etc. During the battle last night, I was adding +14 to my roll, due to a magical weapon and bonus from the team cleric. Everyone was rolling high last night because of the cleric.
If you're rolling out in the open, it shouldn't be an issue. Just make sure you let the die lay long enough for someone else to verify it.
Yep, not a problem.
Sounds like this guy needs glasses.
Funny because he has them, just doesn't use them. This might be brought up next time there's any question of my dice rolling.
I roll everything in the open as a DM. As a player I do the same thing. I roll it in the middle of the table and announce what I rolled. I leave my dice on the table for a short bit, I don't immediately scoop them up.
I know as a DM I have experienced players who roll and then scoop them up a half second later and it can seem fishy, especially when those players roll 15+ every time.
That being said, roll the dice. Let them sit. Gives him time to look at the dice and confirm you aren't a cheater.
We've never rolled in the middle of the table simply because there's little space: books about, miniatures, drinks, foods. But no one has any reason to cheat, so it's never been an issue. The DMs, however, use a DM screen and roll behind that. We've never questioned those rolls, either.
I've also tried using a dice rolling phone app that has a huge readout and can't be fudged, but the DMs prefer physical dice, which isn't a problem.
But thanks for all of the input! It's appreciated.
You have a crappy DM. The whole confirm the crit / fumble with the person next to you is pretty HEIL HERR DM territory.
Well, the confirmation thing began really as a fun way to celebrate crits. It still is. It's not something we have to do, but choose to do.
"Natural 20! Confirm?!"
"Confirmeeedddddd! Dude's gonna get his ass handed to him!"
It's like that.
The DM in discussion is a stickler for rules, so much so we call him a rule-monger. He's a damn good DM when it comes to being knowledgeable, but seems to lack tact at times. Problem is, he's also my best friend, haha.
As a GM I always roll behind my screen, but my Players {as agreed} must roll their dice in full view of the table. If I ask to see the die more clearer, then I am allowed. In the same vein, if a Players wants to see my die because of {whatever}, then I lift the screen up for him/her too see. Plain, simple, easy. In all honesty though, I think that your GM is taking the game far too seriously. D&D is an imagination game, not a World Stakes Poker match were you just bet your mortgage and wife on the next set. Ask the bloke to chill out, and quit acting like a Tool. Of course, ask a lot more politely then that, ha.
Excellent.
Alright, check it. I've been playing with the same guys for close to a decade. Never ever ever has anyone ever ever ever been accused of fudging rolls... Until just recently.
A couple weeks ago, one of the dungeon masters talked to me said he saw me fuding a roll. I told him what he thought was a 2, was actually a 12. I went on to explain that he was sitting right next to me, I was rolling on the table and anyone could look at my rolls. It was dropped.
Last night after a roll, I noticed the same DM eyeing me. I asked him what the look was for and he said, "what did you do, roll a 2?" And I got pretty upset. The gameplay pretty much stopped because I told him what he could go do with himself. And it pretty much killed the mood, because we were in the biggest battle of the campaign (thus far). I didn't mean for that to happen, but I just had to stick up for myself.
Thing is, I even got new dice with larger-than-normal lettering on it, just so anyone and everyone could see my rolls. I roll on the tabletop whereas half of the other players roll in their laps, where no one can see. But yet, those guys are never questioned.
So, what would you do? I've tried talking to him before with, looks like, no luck. I'm about ( ) this close to just dropping out of the game we've been playing for several months now.
Thanks for any input!
personally I'd crack him one for insulting my character. But that's just me.
Especially when everyone else at the table is rolling in a much more dubious position.
I'd pack up and leave. The **** isn't worth it.
personally I'd crack him one for insulting my character. But that's just me.
Especially when everyone else at the table is rolling in a much more dubious position.
I'd pack up and leave. The **** isn't worth it.
Thinking about it, that's for sure. They're all good friends, but if one of them is basically going to be calling me a liar over a game, then it's not worth my time.
They're all good friends, but if one of them is basically going to be calling me a liar over a game, then it's not worth my time.
Excellent.
Does this DM have a cynical sense of humor? I am not defending him, but perhaps it was just a misunderstanding in the heat of the moment. You'll have to decide if the situation is worth salvaging.
I don't care whether the dm rolls in open or secret. That is a matter of DM style. I do feel pretty strongly that players should roll in the open though and let the dice cool off so everyone can see. Maybe this guy should be looking at the players rolling secretly in the yahtzee cup.
Over the years I have dealt with cheating players plenty of times.
I have on occation cheated myself, even elaboratly in plain view on an open table.
We even had games that basically degenerated into roleplaying narration, where dice where rolled mostly symbolically to uphold the illusion of randomness.
Still we had fun with it though, at the time...So long ago, ah nostalgia.
Anyway, The player that constantly jumps through hoops to assure me of the authenticity of his rolls would be the first one I'd suspect of fudging.
And if the player would react with anger and hostility when I called him on it, it would solidify my belief of fudging to be even more true.
I'm not saying you DID fudge, but regardless, you do seem suspicious to me.
My advice is apologise to the DM for throwing a fit mid-session, but also explain to him you felt very insulted by his accusation.
Hopefully you will both come to an understanding, but if he still keeps insisting, then meh....Just go with your plan and leave the game.
Over the years I have dealt with cheating players plenty of times.
I have on occation cheated myself, even elaboratly in plain view on an open table.
We even had games that basically degenerated into roleplaying narration, where dice where rolled mostly symbolically to uphold the illusion of randomness.
Still we had fun with it though, at the time...So long ago, ah nostalgia.
Anyway, The player that constantly jumps through hoops to assure me of the authenticity of his rolls would be the first one I'd suspect of fudging.
And if the player would react with anger and hostility when I called him on it, it would solidify my belief of fudging to be even more true.
I'm not saying you DID fudge, but regardless, you do seem suspicious to me.
My advice is apologise to the DM for throwing a fit mid-session, but also explain to him you felt very insulted by his accusation.
Hopefully you will both come to an understanding, but if he still keeps insisting, then meh....Just go with your plan and leave the game.
So, how would someone try to explain they didn't fudge their roll, if not to try to prove or explain authenticity of said rolls?
The reason I got upset about it is because:
- We've been playing together for close to a decade and no one has ever cheated
- We've been best friends for seven years
- We always sit next to one another at the table
- He already accused me of it once, and I thought it was dropped after we talked about it out of game
- He accused me of it a second time, the other players heard it, even though my dice was out in the open unlike half of the table
- Thus, he's basically calling me a cheat and a liar, and being a douche about it
- I tell him what he can do with himself
- Enter sedated feeling for the remainder of the battle (about three more rounds)
So, based on what you said, I should've said: "Mr. DM: I believe you're mistaken, like you were once before. Here is my dice, as it sits in front of me in complete sight of you and the rest of the table. Were you to have taken a look at the dice, perhaps inches from your face, you would see I did not fudge my roll. Next time, please do not make unfounded accusations, as it brings down my enjoyment of the game and causes unnecessary pauses like this to take place. Are we copacetic now?"
It still would've disrupted the game, but the choice of words would've been different. Outcome likely would've remained the same.
On the GM side of things 2 of my players fudge their dice rolls all the time. I'm always too busy running my game to be confidant in my believe of their bull. When I am 100% positive, and they're caught red handed, I call them out, they know it. The other half of the time when I'm 100% positive, but they think they've gotten away with it, I don't call em out on it because I just don't want the arguement. I know it's a talk I'm gonna have to have with them.
The only time I've ever seen someone fudge rolls was if they were unexperienced gamers and can't really cope with the fact that failing is part of the game and part of the fun.
Anyway, The player that constantly jumps through hoops to assure me of the authenticity of his rolls would be the first one I'd suspect of fudging.
And if the player would react with anger and hostility when I called him on it, it would solidify my belief of fudging to be even more true.
I'm not saying you DID fudge, but regardless, you do seem suspicious to me.
Seems like a pretty severe witch-hunting mentality there. You (the DM in this case, because he started it) say "You're a witch!", he says "I'm not a witch!" Now you say "You must be a witch, you're trying to defend yourself!". Pretty ridiculous.
I meant that before any accusations at all, a player that would constantly badger me as the DM with uncalled for proof of innocence, would seem suspicious.
It's likely I misunderstood the OP in turn, as it seemed to me, this might have been the case here aswell. Obviously it was not.
My final advice still stands though.
Just apologise for loosing your temper, but make sure he understands why it happened, and that he infact owes you an apology aswell.
If he is still being a douche, then into the goblins cookpot with him and his campain.
So what I do is the following:
Before I roll my dice, if I know the AC of the target, I announce what number I need to hit the target. If I don't know the AC, then I announce my bonus for that roll.
After rolling the dice (and I try to roll attack and damage dice together) I announce the result, and then leave them in plain view and then slide them to a position in front of me being careful not to allow any of them to roll while sliding. The position I slide them to is between me and the character next to me.
If I hit, then I total up the damage die in plain view and announce the result.
I've never been accused of fudging a die roll, and I would be quite indignant if someone did. However I have had a couple of occasions where the DM challenged my bonus calculation and realized I was wrong, either from adding something that had expired, or forgetting to apply a debuff. I feel pretty bad even when I do that.
Talk about it - away from the game and away from others - and settle it. There should be no uncertainty about how you feel on the issue.
If it continues, just bow out of the game.
I would be damn certain I was not mis-adding anything from now on. Have the DM confirm your math for you even.
I have been in many games with cheaters, and only once with a die fudger, but I have also never seen an accused cheater turn out to be innocent. (cheater mis-adds, die fudger moves their dice to a new number.) So I am hesitant to believe you, and honestly if I had a player I suspected of cheating (and the other PCs cared, because I don't) I would defiantly eye their rolls, and make an effort to check their numbers, and I would probably be pretty overt about it. (Every cheater i have played with has been invited because they were the friend of a friend or two, and I actually don't like them)
If I was accused and innocent, because the world is big and I haven't seen every gamer and some could legitimately be innocent, I'd pull out my fist sized d20 and roll it from now on. It is black with white numbers so you can read it acoss the table. I would also keep it on the table as it lay, or maybe even offer to let the DM roll for me from now on. I had a player accuse me of die fudging once, and I bought this die for them. I have never used a screen, so that wasn't an issue. It seriously went like this "Hey Krusk, how do you keep rolling so many attacks that hit?" "Well you see, when each of the 5 Marilith's make like 10 attacks a turn, I roll 50d20 a round. Odds are good I will crit each round of combat" "yeah I bet thats it". Next session "Some people complained that I might be cheating, to clear any doubt I got this die. I am gonna use it from now on for all DM rolls." (took forever to run those Marilith encounters 1d20 at a time, and eventually the player said "OK I get it, my bad" and the game continued as normal.)
That said if a close friend of many years accused me of cheating and was being a jerk about it, I might see if anything was up outside of the game.
I would be damn certain I was not mis-adding anything from now on. Have the DM confirm your math for you even.
I have been in many games with cheaters, and only once with a die fudger, but I have also never seen an accused cheater turn out to be innocent. (cheater mis-adds, die fudger moves their dice to a new number.) So I am hesitant to believe you, and honestly if I had a player I suspected of cheating (and the other PCs cared, because I don't) I would defiantly eye their rolls, and make an effort to check their numbers, and I would probably be pretty overt about it. (Every cheater i have played with has been invited because they were the friend of a friend or two, and I actually don't like them)
If I was accused and innocent, because the world is big and I haven't seen every gamer and some could legitimately be innocent, I'd pull out my fist sized d20 and roll it from now on. It is black with white numbers so you can read it acoss the table. I would also keep it on the table as it lay, or maybe even offer to let the DM roll for me from now on. I had a player accuse me of die fudging once, and I bought this die for them. I have never used a screen, so that wasn't an issue. It seriously went like this "Hey Krusk, how do you keep rolling so many attacks that hit?" "Well you see, when each of the 5 Marilith's make like 10 attacks a turn, I roll 50d20 a round. Odds are good I will crit each round of combat" "yeah I bet thats it". Next session "Some people complained that I might be cheating, to clear any doubt I got this die. I am gonna use it from now on for all DM rolls." (took forever to run those Marilith encounters 1d20 at a time, and eventually the player said "OK I get it, my bad" and the game continued as normal.)
That said if a close friend of many years accused me of cheating and was being a jerk about it, I might see if anything was up outside of the game.
Believe me, I don't cheat. There's no point in it. Also, the guy sits right next to me at every session. It's always been that way. I have bright pink dice with big, bold white lettering that cannot be missed. If I were cheating in any way, everyone would notice. I have my sheet in front of me, I roll, I add. Nothing is moved until the end of my turn. And maybe you missed it through all the posts, but the DM has all of our stats and modifiers/bonuses written down on a sheet for his reference. He knows I use a rapier and what my rogue powers are, what I add, etc. So, if I'm rolling d8 + 8 (Dex) + 6 (Cha) for Sly Flourish, and end up with 44 damage, then he knows I'm lying my ass off. And since all rolls are public, he'd know when I get max damage. Etc., etc.
But it's funny you mentioned a big dice, because I went shopping for a foam dice. I know they make the suckers about six inches big, and that's my goal. I'd seriously use it, just to show the DM what a **** he's being. There wouldn't be any room on the table, but there's plenty of floor space.
Someone in this thread mentioned that it sounded like the DM was taking things too seriously. Funny that was mentioned, because I was talking with another player and he said the same thing. Thursday will likely be his last night playing with us. He's bowing out because it's not fun for him anymore. Sad when a several month-long campaign can be brought to a halt by something like this.
I have bright pink dice
There's your problem right there...
Believe me, I don't cheat. There's no point in it. Also, the guy sits right next to me at every session. It's always been that way. I have bright pink dice with big, bold white lettering that cannot be missed. If I were cheating in any way, everyone would notice. I have my sheet in front of me, I roll, I add. Nothing is moved until the end of my turn. And maybe you missed it through all the posts, but the DM has all of our stats and modifiers/bonuses written down on a sheet for his reference. He knows I use a rapier and what my rogue powers are, what I add, etc. So, if I'm rolling d8 + 8 (Dex) + 6 (Cha) for Sly Flourish, and end up with 44 damage, then he knows I'm lying my ass off. And since all rolls are public, he'd know when I get max damage. Etc., etc.
But it's funny you mentioned a big dice, because I went shopping for a foam dice. I know they make the suckers about six inches big, and that's my goal. I'd seriously use it, just to show the DM what a **** he's being. There wouldn't be any room on the table, but there's plenty of floor space.
Someone in this thread mentioned that it sounded like the DM was taking things too seriously. Funny that was mentioned, because I was talking with another player and he said the same thing. Thursday will likely be his last night playing with us. He's bowing out because it's not fun for him anymore. Sad when a several month-long campaign can be brought to a halt by something like this.
Talk with the guy getting ready to leave. Also, maybe you should mention it to your Dm that his ass hattery is about to lose him Two Players.
If that doesn't turn him around, then maybe you should stage Ye Olde Player Revolt and see who goes with you. Maybe talk about forming your own Group Sans Asshat with the other players. If there's two of you getting ready to Drop The Douche chances are the other players aren't too happy either.
...I have also never seen an accused cheater turn out to be innocent.....I had a player accuse me of die fudging once, and I bought this die for them...
You've never seen an accused cheater turn out to be innocent, but you bought a special die to prove your innocence after being accused of cheating?
...I have also never seen an accused cheater turn out to be innocent.....I had a player accuse me of die fudging once, and I bought this die for them...
You've never seen an accused cheater turn out to be innocent, but you bought a special die to prove your innocence after being accused of cheating?
I see you missed where I defined the difference between cheating and fudging? Let me quote that same post of mine you just quoted.
(cheater mis-adds, die fudger moves their dice to a new number.)
When they call you for it, just shrug and say "What? Now you are accusing me of cheating to roll low? I can't win with you can I?"
...I have also never seen an accused cheater turn out to be innocent.....I had a player accuse me of die fudging once, and I bought this die for them...
You've never seen an accused cheater turn out to be innocent, but you bought a special die to prove your innocence after being accused of cheating?I see you missed where I defined the difference between cheating and fudging? Let me quote that same post of mine you just quoted.
(cheater mis-adds, die fudger moves their dice to a new number.)
That's still cheating, though. Die fudging is cheating. Die fudgers are merely a subset of cheaters.
You're basically saying:
I have never seen a rectangle X
I have seen a square X
I see you missed where I defined the difference between cheating and fudging?
I think you're confusing comprehension and agreement.