Where should I put the +2? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Where should I put the +2?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
cariyaga
May 05, 2008 17:59:02 We're using Pathfinder rules, and I'm playing a human Crusader with the following stats:

Str: 15
Dex: 14
Con:18
Int: 13
Wis: 10
Cha: 14

And I'm not sure where to put the floating +2. Honestly, it would be useful in nearly any of my ability scores.

I put these here because it included Character Creation.
#2
crimsondeath
May 05, 2008 21:27:06 I'd say Strength, but Constitution might be fun. Strength will help you with melee attack and damage rolls, but Constitution will give you more HP, better Concentration checks, and better Fort saves (very important if you want the Immortal Fortitude stance).

Since you get heavy armor, you have plenty of Dex. You have enough Intelligence for Combat Expertise if you want it, so you don't need any more. You also have enough Charisma for most of the feats you'd want, so you probably don't need it there either (unless you're worried about your Will saves or have some other use for it). Your Wisdom is probably plenty high too.
#3
riplox
May 05, 2008 21:58:34 Like Crimson suggested, put it in strength. You're a holy melee combatant and that +2 can't hurt. The only other one I'd consider is Wisdom, but it'll take more than a +2 boost to make it a useful stat to you.
#4
runestar
May 05, 2008 21:58:44 It depends. How will you be playing your crusader?

If you are using an AoO lockdown build, +2 in dex might be better to help fuel combat reflexes. For a straight melee combatant, putting it in either str or con would be useful. If you think you might be relying on a lot of maneuvers with saves, +2cha could help.
#5
cariyaga
May 05, 2008 23:30:02 We're playing in a group with 6 other ToB'ers. I'm the only Crusader, so I'm going to focus on Devoted Spirit a lot.

I want to Tank with a capital T, but also do some damage, too. I'm thinking either Strength or Constitution. I'm using a shield, so a Two-Handed weapon is out until I can get a floaty shield, so maybe it would be better off in Constitution.
#6
DerelictDroid
May 05, 2008 23:44:31 If you weren't playing in a Paizo game, I'd suggest Strength. But since you are, I strongly suggest you put it into Constitution. Having played several Paizo adventures, the designers gleefully (and saddistically) stock their encounters with ability draining MOBs and traps. The higher constitution will keep your fort saves exceptionally high to deal with this.

Just my opinion though.
#7
warlawk
May 06, 2008 2:54:20
If you weren't playing in a Paizo game, I'd suggest Strength. But since you are, I strongly suggest you put it into Constitution. Having played several Paizo adventures, the designers gleefully (and saddistically) stock their encounters with ability draining MOBs and traps. The higher constitution will keep your fort saves exceptionally high to deal with this.

Just my opinion though.

Playing Pathfinder rules does not specifically mean playing Paizo adventures... just an observation.

Personally, I would go strength. 15 is a bit lacking for a tankish type IMO. I have played a crusader heavily focused on Devoted Spirit and you cannot go wrong there with either str or con, so do whatever you feel is best.
#8
narack
May 06, 2008 7:09:46 I would say put it into strength to get 1 more attack bonus and damage but also it's not the end of the world +1 on those 2. You could instead put into Wisdom that will increase your survivability to will saves. They are more common than fort saves but your fort save are high enough.

I say go for either of them. I you go for strength get a cloak of resistance to boost your saves and if you go for wisdom, get a belt of giant strength. That will make you a really nice character to play being well balance.
#9
drmorganes
May 06, 2008 9:25:31 Never, ever, plan your base ability score allocation with the assumption that you can "just get <>" later. That said...

DEX: with heavy armor and without Combat Reflexes, the only real benefit you'll see here is boosting your initiative score. Since you're opting for the "hit me, I'm a Tank" concept, I'd say DEX 14 is fine.

INT: You have enough skill points for relevant skills. Crusaders don't need to worry overmuch about making skill checks as part of their maneuvers.

WIS: Yes, you'll boost Will Saves, but you have a better option. See CHA below.

CHA: Crusaders add their CHA bonus to Will Saves beginning at Level 2. Having a +2 CHA bonus and a +1 WIS bonus or a +3 CHA bonus amounts to the same thing for your Will Save. However, you can also Smite at later levels. Having the +3 bonus in CHA is a better option.

CON: You already have an impressive 18 here. +4 HP per level is nothing to sneeze at, but more is always better. Tanking means people are attacking you instead of that squishy caster, and you have the abilities (Iron Guard's Glare for starters) to keep it that way. AC is nice and all, but 5% of all melee strikes will hit you regardless, and have possibility of critical damage increases. You can never have too many HP in those cases.

STR: Being able to take punishment is nice, but not as nice as being able to dish it out. Boosting your STR means you hit more often and do more damage, which in turn means the baddies fall faster and don't do as much damage to you or those you're protecting. A +2 STR bonus is nice, but +3 is even better. Best of all, you're a single level-based ability score increase away from a +4 bonus. This consistent bonus is far better than a once-daily +3 damage boost from Smite.

All other things being equal... I think boosting STR serve you best out of the gate. Depending on starting level, you can tweak other ability scores with magic. Just don't expect to be able to buy such magic once the game starts!
#10
navar100
May 06, 2008 10:17:32 I concur with putting it in ST. You want to be able to hit. Also, some cool crusader strikes don't give extra damage, such as the healing strikes. It's nice to have some decent damage output when using them.
#11
crimsondeath
May 06, 2008 12:31:01
I concur with putting it in ST. You want to be able to hit. Also, some cool crusader strikes don't give extra damage, such as the healing strikes. It's nice to have some decent damage output when using them.

Also, your healing Strikes only work if the attack hits. A boost in Strength will make that happen more often.
#12
cariyaga
May 06, 2008 15:44:46 Level 1. Not that it matters anymore. I'll put it in Strength. Thanks, guys.
#13
DerelictDroid
May 06, 2008 18:25:46
Playing Pathfinder rules does not specifically mean playing Paizo adventures... just an observation.

Personally, I would go strength. 15 is a bit lacking for a tankish type IMO. I have played a crusader heavily focused on Devoted Spirit and you cannot go wrong there with either str or con, so do whatever you feel is best.

Uhm, Pathfinder IS a Paizo setting and campaign. Now had the the OP said we're using Paizo rules, instead of Pathfinder, then you'd be correct.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 cariyaga May 05, 2008 17:59:02	We're using Pathfinder rules, and I'm playing a human Crusader with the following stats: Str: 15 Dex: 14 Con:18 Int: 13 Wis: 10 Cha: 14 And I'm not sure where to put the floating +2. Honestly, it would be useful in nearly any of my ability scores. I put these here because it included Character Creation.
#2 crimsondeath May 05, 2008 21:27:06	I'd say Strength, but Constitution might be fun. Strength will help you with melee attack and damage rolls, but Constitution will give you more HP, better Concentration checks, and better Fort saves (very important if you want the Immortal Fortitude stance). Since you get heavy armor, you have plenty of Dex. You have enough Intelligence for Combat Expertise if you want it, so you don't need any more. You also have enough Charisma for most of the feats you'd want, so you probably don't need it there either (unless you're worried about your Will saves or have some other use for it). Your Wisdom is probably plenty high too.
#3 riplox May 05, 2008 21:58:34	Like Crimson suggested, put it in strength. You're a holy melee combatant and that +2 can't hurt. The only other one I'd consider is Wisdom, but it'll take more than a +2 boost to make it a useful stat to you.
#4 runestar May 05, 2008 21:58:44	It depends. How will you be playing your crusader? If you are using an AoO lockdown build, +2 in dex might be better to help fuel combat reflexes. For a straight melee combatant, putting it in either str or con would be useful. If you think you might be relying on a lot of maneuvers with saves, +2cha could help.
#5 cariyaga May 05, 2008 23:30:02	We're playing in a group with 6 other ToB'ers. I'm the only Crusader, so I'm going to focus on Devoted Spirit a lot. I want to Tank with a capital T, but also do some damage, too. I'm thinking either Strength or Constitution. I'm using a shield, so a Two-Handed weapon is out until I can get a floaty shield, so maybe it would be better off in Constitution.
#6 DerelictDroid May 05, 2008 23:44:31	If you weren't playing in a Paizo game, I'd suggest Strength. But since you are, I strongly suggest you put it into Constitution. Having played several Paizo adventures, the designers gleefully (and saddistically) stock their encounters with ability draining MOBs and traps. The higher constitution will keep your fort saves exceptionally high to deal with this. Just my opinion though.
#7 warlawk May 06, 2008 2:54:20	If you weren't playing in a Paizo game, I'd suggest Strength. But since you are, I strongly suggest you put it into Constitution. Having played several Paizo adventures, the designers gleefully (and saddistically) stock their encounters with ability draining MOBs and traps. The higher constitution will keep your fort saves exceptionally high to deal with this. Just my opinion though. Playing Pathfinder rules does not specifically mean playing Paizo adventures... just an observation. Personally, I would go strength. 15 is a bit lacking for a tankish type IMO. I have played a crusader heavily focused on Devoted Spirit and you cannot go wrong there with either str or con, so do whatever you feel is best.
#8 narack May 06, 2008 7:09:46	I would say put it into strength to get 1 more attack bonus and damage but also it's not the end of the world +1 on those 2. You could instead put into Wisdom that will increase your survivability to will saves. They are more common than fort saves but your fort save are high enough. I say go for either of them. I you go for strength get a cloak of resistance to boost your saves and if you go for wisdom, get a belt of giant strength. That will make you a really nice character to play being well balance.
#9 drmorganes May 06, 2008 9:25:31	Never, ever, plan your base ability score allocation with the assumption that you can "just get <>" later. That said... DEX: with heavy armor and without Combat Reflexes, the only real benefit you'll see here is boosting your initiative score. Since you're opting for the "hit me, I'm a Tank" concept, I'd say DEX 14 is fine. INT: You have enough skill points for relevant skills. Crusaders don't need to worry overmuch about making skill checks as part of their maneuvers. WIS: Yes, you'll boost Will Saves, but you have a better option. See CHA below. CHA: Crusaders add their CHA bonus to Will Saves beginning at Level 2. Having a +2 CHA bonus and a +1 WIS bonus or a +3 CHA bonus amounts to the same thing for your Will Save. However, you can also Smite at later levels. Having the +3 bonus in CHA is a better option. CON: You already have an impressive 18 here. +4 HP per level is nothing to sneeze at, but more is always better. Tanking means people are attacking you instead of that squishy caster, and you have the abilities (Iron Guard's Glare for starters) to keep it that way. AC is nice and all, but 5% of all melee strikes will hit you regardless, and have possibility of critical damage increases. You can never have too many HP in those cases. STR: Being able to take punishment is nice, but not as nice as being able to dish it out. Boosting your STR means you hit more often and do more damage, which in turn means the baddies fall faster and don't do as much damage to you or those you're protecting. A +2 STR bonus is nice, but +3 is even better. Best of all, you're a single level-based ability score increase away from a +4 bonus. This consistent bonus is far better than a once-daily +3 damage boost from Smite. All other things being equal... I think boosting STR serve you best out of the gate. Depending on starting level, you can tweak other ability scores with magic. Just don't expect to be able to buy such magic once the game starts!
#10 navar100 May 06, 2008 10:17:32	I concur with putting it in ST. You want to be able to hit. Also, some cool crusader strikes don't give extra damage, such as the healing strikes. It's nice to have some decent damage output when using them.
#11 crimsondeath May 06, 2008 12:31:01	I concur with putting it in ST. You want to be able to hit. Also, some cool crusader strikes don't give extra damage, such as the healing strikes. It's nice to have some decent damage output when using them. Also, your healing Strikes only work if the attack hits. A boost in Strength will make that happen more often.
#12 cariyaga May 06, 2008 15:44:46	Level 1. Not that it matters anymore. I'll put it in Strength. Thanks, guys.
#13 DerelictDroid May 06, 2008 18:25:46	Playing Pathfinder rules does not specifically mean playing Paizo adventures... just an observation. Personally, I would go strength. 15 is a bit lacking for a tankish type IMO. I have played a crusader heavily focused on Devoted Spirit and you cannot go wrong there with either str or con, so do whatever you feel is best. Uhm, Pathfinder IS a Paizo setting and campaign. Now had the the OP said we're using Paizo rules, instead of Pathfinder, then you'd be correct.