Which PHB1 class is best suited for an eastern-sword style character? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Which PHB1 class is best suited for an eastern-sword style character?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
wafflecop
Mar 30, 2009 13:16:04 (question in topic)
#2
apollyonschosen
Mar 30, 2009 13:27:54 My money is on the great weapon wielding Paladin. They could easily be flavored as Samurai types. Ranger would also work well i would imagine, if your theme was dependent on the dual wielding thing. In my opinion you could easily flavor any of the martial classes from PHB as an "eastern swordsman" type. I am of course assuming you mean a samurai...
#3
morvannon
Mar 30, 2009 13:28:57 (request for clarification in follow-up post)
#4
wafflecop
Mar 30, 2009 13:33:24
My money is on the great weapon wielding Paladin. They could easily be flavored as Samurai types. Ranger would also work well i would imagine, if your theme was dependent on the dual wielding thing. In my opinion you could easily flavor any of the martial classes from PHB as an "eastern swordsman" type. I am of course assuming you mean a samurai...

Yeah, samurai. Not the heavily armored ones though.
#5
daidojitaidoru
Mar 30, 2009 13:43:46 It depends. Which country are you talking about by eastern? Which time period of said country do you want? Which realistic or romanticized version of that period are you most interested in?

If you want a lightly armored samurai you should consider Ranger or Rogue. Reflavor the rapier to slashing and go with that. I haven't looked over as much of the PHB 2 as I should have, but a reflavored Barbarian might work too.
#6
wafflecop
Mar 30, 2009 13:54:56
It depends. Which country are you talking about by eastern? Which time period of said country do you want? Which realistic or romanticized version of that period are you most interested in?

I'm not trying to be specific with the country or time period. I just want a class that would best fit the sword style of a stereotypical samurai (like the sword styles seen in the shows Rurouni Kenshin or Samurai Champloo)
#7
ah_angelofdeath
Mar 30, 2009 13:58:15 I think the Fighter (Kensei paragon path) is most ideally suited as a Samurai.
Just specialize in a Longsword (+3 attack bonus is sweet) and go for the attack powers (instead of the slash/bash powers). At least, if you want the Samurai to fight well, and be able to tank too.

If you want him/her to lead well, try a Tactics Warlord (Combat Veteran paragon path looks good for the purpose).

A ranger would be a bad one/two handed swordsman (two weapon fighting specialization isn't really what a Samurai does, and archer specialization takes away too much of the melee potential).

A paladin is a holy warrior. One could see a Samurai that way. I dont (a Samurai laying on hands is.. wierd). Samurai are far more in love with 'the way' / zen of fighting then into some god, I think. It doesn't fit well enough in my opinion, but if you can make it work, go right ahead. Paladin are great warriors.

Last but not least :

An Eladrin Brawny Rogue (Brutal Scoundrel) with Longsword Finesse (Martial Power), enabling use of the Longsword as a Light Blade, would be a great attacking Samurai. Or a Ninja. It would be an awesome striker.
#8
Seeker95
Mar 30, 2009 14:42:01
I think the Fighter (Kensei paragon path) is most ideally suited as a Samurai.

QFA.

Quoted for Agreement.
#9
pfunked
Mar 30, 2009 16:08:54 I'm using Fighter, though I haven't researched it deeply.

I'm flavoring his starting scale armor as samurai-style "splint" armor.
#10
Crimson_Concerto
Mar 30, 2009 16:15:28 I'd say Fighter or Ranger or Rogue depending on what exactly it is you're going for...
#11
Xaielao2
Mar 30, 2009 16:21:19
QFA.

Quoted for Agreement.

You rebel!
#12
Cathartic
Mar 30, 2009 16:24:41 I'd suggest you could get closest with a Bastard Sword wielding fighter, perhaps with some multi-classing to pick-up ranger powers.

However, that doesn't quite get there - in D&D terms, such a character would likely tend towards wearing armour heavier than a Samurai and would be less effective than if he wielded a true 2-handed sword. Even with Ranger multi-classing he would likely lack a Samurai's skill with a bow (which was often equal to their swordsmanship).

So it doesn't really work. The 4th ed system isn't very flexible like that. If you want a more accurate Samurai representation, you'd be better off going back to 3rd Edition, or trying L5R. Alternatively, wait for PHB3 to be released, since that's likely to contain many eastern-oriented classes.
#13
Salamandyr2000
Mar 30, 2009 16:37:18 If you wanted to take the time to re-work the flavor text of all your powers, I think the Barbarian would actually work quite well as a samurai, if what you're going for is a lightly armored warrior, wielding a razor sharp katana.

Properly used, a katana is a two handed weapon, the fullblade gives it that nice superior, slashes through anything feel. The barbarian class is effective in light armor (with a starting 14 Dex, Barbarian Agility, and Hide Armor you actually keep on par in AC with the Ranger and Rogue), has great hp. The swift charge is very samurai-y, Howling Strike an overhand strike delivered with a massive ki shout, and pressing strike a cut at the legs as you do a martial arts roll past (or over!) your enemy. All the way back to 3.5 people have been re-flavoring rages to mean cold-concentration, or single minded killing style. Change the names, and Bloodhunt Rage becomes Walking Through Rice Fields, a devastating ki stance.

Mechanically plays the same, but feels entirely different.

EDIT: I missed where you said PHB1. For that, Fighter all the way. PP into Kensai. Wear scale, it's pretty similar to o-yori
#14
superbat_99
Mar 30, 2009 16:49:10 If you wanted the typical samurai then I'd go with a fighter. A close second would be the ranger. Samurai were often good archers as well as swordsmen. Avenger class would be an interesting twist just change the power behind him to an inner strength in fighting for his lord or something like that. Warlord would be a more elite style samurai that spent more time inspiring then straight up fighting, could also be a bannerman or standard bearer. Rogue would be more of a ninja style character.

If your thinking of the chinese culture then I'd say rangers as the elite and fighter spearmen or pikemen as the grunts.
#15
alane
Mar 30, 2009 17:13:38 How about the Avenger?

As an Avenger, you are a single-weapon fighter who swirls elegantly through the battle, avoiding some enemies and slaughtering others. With your katana (bastard sword), scimitar (fullblade), or naginata (halberd) you have no equal.

You have no need of the heavy, clumsy armor worn by those ridiculous western knights and crusaders! Wearing simple yet elegant garments of silk and cotton, you can butcher those slow-moving gaijin with your hard-won martial arts.

In proper eastern style, you are always seeking a classic one-on-one duel with a worthy foe - the enemy leader, perhaps, or else their most skilled warrior. Lesser enemies cannot keep you from your chosen target; your acrobatic moves and flips across the battlefield are too fast for them.

Your swift strikes keep your enemy off-balance, always reeling in a direction of your choice. Perhaps if these westerners would learn proper balance, it wouldn't be so easy to knock them into perfect position for the kill.

With a bit of flavor text, I think Avenger could be a great eastern-style fighter!

- Alane -
#16
trismagestus
Mar 30, 2009 17:41:52 If you're thinking a more Wuxia style (magical warrior, ala Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon or House of Flying Daggers), then my best response is Swordmage.

Edit: Okay, it's not PHB1, but it's Core =J
#17
WhiteHarness
Mar 30, 2009 18:20:18
You have no need of the heavy, clumsy armor worn by those ridiculous western knights and crusaders! Wearing simple yet elegant garments of silk and cotton, you can butcher those slow-moving gaijin with your hard-won martial arts.

I can't tell if you're just being sarcastic or actively trying to start an argument...
#18
crimson_lancer
Mar 30, 2009 18:25:04 I'd say Avenger Multied into Fighter for the Swordmaster PP.
#19
RUMPLESTIX
Mar 30, 2009 18:37:55 Although I don't nkow anything of actual samurai wielding 2 weapons simultaneously it seems to be a part of the popular mythos. Couple that with in reality being outstanding archers and I would say a ranger, two weapon fighter who would choose as many two attack dual (range and melee) powers as possible. Then perhaps multiclass warlord. Then you could choose any number of paragon paths.
#20
tiwaztyrsfist
Mar 30, 2009 19:10:50 As several people have said, it depends on what you're going for.

If you're going with the MORE traditional sword school, which is use of a Katana or Tachi with both hands, definately great-weapon fighter going into Kensai.

If you want to go with Musashi's Two-Sword style, Katana in one hand Watazashi in the other, then Two-Weapon Ranger is the way to go, probably with MC fighter so you can go Kensai.

If you go Single Sword Style, go with Greatsword to simulate a large katana or Taachi.

If you go Two Sword Style, go with Broadswords to simulate smaller katana.

If you want to go with a Chinese sword master, I actually think Sword Mage would be the best choice. Using a Short Sword to simulate a Tai-Chi sword, or a Scimitar or Rapier to simulate a WuShu sword. Simply reflavor the spells to Ki effects, with no real need to alter the mechanical effects. Lean towards mobility powers. Aegis of Assault fits the flavor best in my opinion.

Edit: RE: RUMPLESTIX -- Miyamoto Musashi, Author of The Book of the Five Rings, and quite probably the single greatest Japanese swordsman ever, advocated a Two-Sword style, known as nitōjutsu.
#21
trismagestus
Mar 30, 2009 21:21:10
...
If you want to go with a Chinese sword master, I actually think Sword Mage would be the best choice. Using a Short Sword to simulate a Tai-Chi sword, or a Scimitar or Rapier to simulate a WuShu sword. Simply reflavor the spells to Ki effects, with no real need to alter the mechanical effects. Lean towards mobility powers. Aegis of Assault fits the flavor best in my opinion.

The 'Tai Chi' sword, or Jian, is much longer than a short sword; I would go with Longsword for the Jian, and Broadsword, Scimitar or Bastard Sword for the much heavier Wu Shu sword.
YMMV

Edit: or, we're thinking of different swords; the names are used over and over for different but similar weapons across the Chinese fighting styles, unfortunately =/
#22
crimson_lancer
Mar 30, 2009 22:04:22 By WuShu I assume he means the Dao. Also, those particular Dao aren't particularly good for combat, being paper-thin for the purposes of showcasing and competition. A real Dao would be a Broadsword, a Jian would be a Longsword, a Katana would be a Bastard Sword, a Wakazashi would be a Short Sword, and a Nodachi would be a Fullblade. The only difference is design, as they work the same from a mechanical perspective. Almost every weapon in DnD is simply the Western-perspective of many inter-changeable weapons that have been used throughout History.

And no, I'm not going to go on a Realism kick or anything, just pointing out that many different weapons are just designed a bit differently and used a bit differently in different places around the world, but for the purposes of DnD, they work the same.
#23
RUMPLESTIX
Mar 30, 2009 23:55:08
Edit: RE: RUMPLESTIX -- Miyamoto Musashi, Author of The Book of the Five Rings, and quite probably the single greatest Japanese swordsman ever, advocated a Two-Sword style, known as nitōjutsu.

#24
salla
Mar 31, 2009 0:06:25 There's really no 'best', just 'different'. So long as the character can use a sword in the first place, it's just as viable for a swordsman character as any other. It just matters what you want to do with it and what role you want him to have in the party.
#25
tiwaztyrsfist
Mar 31, 2009 18:49:48
By WuShu I assume he means the Dao. Also, those particular Dao aren't particularly good for combat, being paper-thin for the purposes of showcasing and competition. A real Dao would be a Broadsword, a Jian would be a Longsword, a Katana would be a Bastard Sword, a Wakazashi would be a Short Sword, and a Nodachi would be a Fullblade. The only difference is design, as they work the same from a mechanical perspective. Almost every weapon in DnD is simply the Western-perspective of many inter-changeable weapons that have been used throughout History.

And no, I'm not going to go on a Realism kick or anything, just pointing out that many different weapons are just designed a bit differently and used a bit differently in different places around the world, but for the purposes of DnD, they work the same.

You are correct about what I meant. I didn't know the correct name for the sword.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 wafflecop Mar 30, 2009 13:16:04	(question in topic)
#2 apollyonschosen Mar 30, 2009 13:27:54	My money is on the great weapon wielding Paladin. They could easily be flavored as Samurai types. Ranger would also work well i would imagine, if your theme was dependent on the dual wielding thing. In my opinion you could easily flavor any of the martial classes from PHB as an "eastern swordsman" type. I am of course assuming you mean a samurai...
#3 morvannon Mar 30, 2009 13:28:57	(request for clarification in follow-up post)
#4 wafflecop Mar 30, 2009 13:33:24	My money is on the great weapon wielding Paladin. They could easily be flavored as Samurai types. Ranger would also work well i would imagine, if your theme was dependent on the dual wielding thing. In my opinion you could easily flavor any of the martial classes from PHB as an "eastern swordsman" type. I am of course assuming you mean a samurai... Yeah, samurai. Not the heavily armored ones though.
#5 daidojitaidoru Mar 30, 2009 13:43:46	It depends. Which country are you talking about by eastern? Which time period of said country do you want? Which realistic or romanticized version of that period are you most interested in? If you want a lightly armored samurai you should consider Ranger or Rogue. Reflavor the rapier to slashing and go with that. I haven't looked over as much of the PHB 2 as I should have, but a reflavored Barbarian might work too.
#6 wafflecop Mar 30, 2009 13:54:56	It depends. Which country are you talking about by eastern? Which time period of said country do you want? Which realistic or romanticized version of that period are you most interested in? I'm not trying to be specific with the country or time period. I just want a class that would best fit the sword style of a stereotypical samurai (like the sword styles seen in the shows Rurouni Kenshin or Samurai Champloo)
#7 ah_angelofdeath Mar 30, 2009 13:58:15	I think the Fighter (Kensei paragon path) is most ideally suited as a Samurai. Just specialize in a Longsword (+3 attack bonus is sweet) and go for the attack powers (instead of the slash/bash powers). At least, if you want the Samurai to fight well, and be able to tank too. If you want him/her to lead well, try a Tactics Warlord (Combat Veteran paragon path looks good for the purpose). A ranger would be a bad one/two handed swordsman (two weapon fighting specialization isn't really what a Samurai does, and archer specialization takes away too much of the melee potential). A paladin is a holy warrior. One could see a Samurai that way. I dont (a Samurai laying on hands is.. wierd). Samurai are far more in love with 'the way' / zen of fighting then into some god, I think. It doesn't fit well enough in my opinion, but if you can make it work, go right ahead. Paladin are great warriors. Last but not least : An Eladrin Brawny Rogue (Brutal Scoundrel) with Longsword Finesse (Martial Power), enabling use of the Longsword as a Light Blade, would be a great attacking Samurai. Or a Ninja. It would be an awesome striker.
#8 Seeker95 Mar 30, 2009 14:42:01	I think the Fighter (Kensei paragon path) is most ideally suited as a Samurai. QFA. Quoted for Agreement.
#9 pfunked Mar 30, 2009 16:08:54	I'm using Fighter, though I haven't researched it deeply. I'm flavoring his starting scale armor as samurai-style "splint" armor.
#10 Crimson_Concerto Mar 30, 2009 16:15:28	I'd say Fighter or Ranger or Rogue depending on what exactly it is you're going for...
#11 Xaielao2 Mar 30, 2009 16:21:19	QFA. Quoted for Agreement. You rebel!
#12 Cathartic Mar 30, 2009 16:24:41	I'd suggest you could get closest with a Bastard Sword wielding fighter, perhaps with some multi-classing to pick-up ranger powers. However, that doesn't quite get there - in D&D terms, such a character would likely tend towards wearing armour heavier than a Samurai and would be less effective than if he wielded a true 2-handed sword. Even with Ranger multi-classing he would likely lack a Samurai's skill with a bow (which was often equal to their swordsmanship). So it doesn't really work. The 4th ed system isn't very flexible like that. If you want a more accurate Samurai representation, you'd be better off going back to 3rd Edition, or trying L5R. Alternatively, wait for PHB3 to be released, since that's likely to contain many eastern-oriented classes.
#13 Salamandyr2000 Mar 30, 2009 16:37:18	If you wanted to take the time to re-work the flavor text of all your powers, I think the Barbarian would actually work quite well as a samurai, if what you're going for is a lightly armored warrior, wielding a razor sharp katana. Properly used, a katana is a two handed weapon, the fullblade gives it that nice superior, slashes through anything feel. The barbarian class is effective in light armor (with a starting 14 Dex, Barbarian Agility, and Hide Armor you actually keep on par in AC with the Ranger and Rogue), has great hp. The swift charge is very samurai-y, Howling Strike an overhand strike delivered with a massive ki shout, and pressing strike a cut at the legs as you do a martial arts roll past (or over!) your enemy. All the way back to 3.5 people have been re-flavoring rages to mean cold-concentration, or single minded killing style. Change the names, and Bloodhunt Rage becomes Walking Through Rice Fields, a devastating ki stance. Mechanically plays the same, but feels entirely different. EDIT: I missed where you said PHB1. For that, Fighter all the way. PP into Kensai. Wear scale, it's pretty similar to o-yori
#14 superbat_99 Mar 30, 2009 16:49:10	If you wanted the typical samurai then I'd go with a fighter. A close second would be the ranger. Samurai were often good archers as well as swordsmen. Avenger class would be an interesting twist just change the power behind him to an inner strength in fighting for his lord or something like that. Warlord would be a more elite style samurai that spent more time inspiring then straight up fighting, could also be a bannerman or standard bearer. Rogue would be more of a ninja style character. If your thinking of the chinese culture then I'd say rangers as the elite and fighter spearmen or pikemen as the grunts.
#15 alane Mar 30, 2009 17:13:38	How about the Avenger? As an Avenger, you are a single-weapon fighter who swirls elegantly through the battle, avoiding some enemies and slaughtering others. With your katana (bastard sword), scimitar (fullblade), or naginata (halberd) you have no equal. You have no need of the heavy, clumsy armor worn by those ridiculous western knights and crusaders! Wearing simple yet elegant garments of silk and cotton, you can butcher those slow-moving gaijin with your hard-won martial arts. In proper eastern style, you are always seeking a classic one-on-one duel with a worthy foe - the enemy leader, perhaps, or else their most skilled warrior. Lesser enemies cannot keep you from your chosen target; your acrobatic moves and flips across the battlefield are too fast for them. Your swift strikes keep your enemy off-balance, always reeling in a direction of your choice. Perhaps if these westerners would learn proper balance, it wouldn't be so easy to knock them into perfect position for the kill. With a bit of flavor text, I think Avenger could be a great eastern-style fighter! - Alane -
#16 trismagestus Mar 30, 2009 17:41:52	If you're thinking a more Wuxia style (magical warrior, ala Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon or House of Flying Daggers), then my best response is Swordmage. Edit: Okay, it's not PHB1, but it's Core =J
#17 WhiteHarness Mar 30, 2009 18:20:18	You have no need of the heavy, clumsy armor worn by those ridiculous western knights and crusaders! Wearing simple yet elegant garments of silk and cotton, you can butcher those slow-moving gaijin with your hard-won martial arts. I can't tell if you're just being sarcastic or actively trying to start an argument...
#18 crimson_lancer Mar 30, 2009 18:25:04	I'd say Avenger Multied into Fighter for the Swordmaster PP.
#19 RUMPLESTIX Mar 30, 2009 18:37:55	Although I don't nkow anything of actual samurai wielding 2 weapons simultaneously it seems to be a part of the popular mythos. Couple that with in reality being outstanding archers and I would say a ranger, two weapon fighter who would choose as many two attack dual (range and melee) powers as possible. Then perhaps multiclass warlord. Then you could choose any number of paragon paths.
#20 tiwaztyrsfist Mar 30, 2009 19:10:50	As several people have said, it depends on what you're going for. If you're going with the MORE traditional sword school, which is use of a Katana or Tachi with both hands, definately great-weapon fighter going into Kensai. If you want to go with Musashi's Two-Sword style, Katana in one hand Watazashi in the other, then Two-Weapon Ranger is the way to go, probably with MC fighter so you can go Kensai. If you go Single Sword Style, go with Greatsword to simulate a large katana or Taachi. If you go Two Sword Style, go with Broadswords to simulate smaller katana. If you want to go with a Chinese sword master, I actually think Sword Mage would be the best choice. Using a Short Sword to simulate a Tai-Chi sword, or a Scimitar or Rapier to simulate a WuShu sword. Simply reflavor the spells to Ki effects, with no real need to alter the mechanical effects. Lean towards mobility powers. Aegis of Assault fits the flavor best in my opinion. Edit: RE: RUMPLESTIX -- Miyamoto Musashi, Author of The Book of the Five Rings, and quite probably the single greatest Japanese swordsman ever, advocated a Two-Sword style, known as nitōjutsu.
#21 trismagestus Mar 30, 2009 21:21:10	... If you want to go with a Chinese sword master, I actually think Sword Mage would be the best choice. Using a Short Sword to simulate a Tai-Chi sword, or a Scimitar or Rapier to simulate a WuShu sword. Simply reflavor the spells to Ki effects, with no real need to alter the mechanical effects. Lean towards mobility powers. Aegis of Assault fits the flavor best in my opinion. The 'Tai Chi' sword, or Jian, is much longer than a short sword; I would go with Longsword for the Jian, and Broadsword, Scimitar or Bastard Sword for the much heavier Wu Shu sword. YMMV Edit: or, we're thinking of different swords; the names are used over and over for different but similar weapons across the Chinese fighting styles, unfortunately =/
#22 crimson_lancer Mar 30, 2009 22:04:22	By WuShu I assume he means the Dao. Also, those particular Dao aren't particularly good for combat, being paper-thin for the purposes of showcasing and competition. A real Dao would be a Broadsword, a Jian would be a Longsword, a Katana would be a Bastard Sword, a Wakazashi would be a Short Sword, and a Nodachi would be a Fullblade. The only difference is design, as they work the same from a mechanical perspective. Almost every weapon in DnD is simply the Western-perspective of many inter-changeable weapons that have been used throughout History. And no, I'm not going to go on a Realism kick or anything, just pointing out that many different weapons are just designed a bit differently and used a bit differently in different places around the world, but for the purposes of DnD, they work the same.
#23 RUMPLESTIX Mar 30, 2009 23:55:08	Edit: RE: RUMPLESTIX -- Miyamoto Musashi, Author of The Book of the Five Rings, and quite probably the single greatest Japanese swordsman ever, advocated a Two-Sword style, known as nitōjutsu.
#24 salla Mar 31, 2009 0:06:25	There's really no 'best', just 'different'. So long as the character can use a sword in the first place, it's just as viable for a swordsman character as any other. It just matters what you want to do with it and what role you want him to have in the party.
#25 tiwaztyrsfist Mar 31, 2009 18:49:48	By WuShu I assume he means the Dao. Also, those particular Dao aren't particularly good for combat, being paper-thin for the purposes of showcasing and competition. A real Dao would be a Broadsword, a Jian would be a Longsword, a Katana would be a Bastard Sword, a Wakazashi would be a Short Sword, and a Nodachi would be a Fullblade. The only difference is design, as they work the same from a mechanical perspective. Almost every weapon in DnD is simply the Western-perspective of many inter-changeable weapons that have been used throughout History. And no, I'm not going to go on a Realism kick or anything, just pointing out that many different weapons are just designed a bit differently and used a bit differently in different places around the world, but for the purposes of DnD, they work the same. You are correct about what I meant. I didn't know the correct name for the sword.