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wizard or necromancer

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
fishfinger
Mar 22, 2008 17:06:35 hi all as i've been saying in my last few posts that i like to play a necromancer however just reading over the libris mortis theres a few spells in there which are conjuration and abjuration based and i'm starting to think specialising in necromancer is wrong where i would hae to give up 2 schools a normal wizard has access to them all, but then i can't really call myself a necromancer.

i mean i'm starting to think that specializing in necromancer is a bad idea, but then again i can't think of any schools to drop if i was, personaly i can illusion is the prime one to drop if your a necromancer but i played an illusionist for 6 months and know how to work them. and i can see it being very useful, so my question is

what are the best two to drop (please bare in mind i will take 1 level in cleric then prestige into True Necromancer (Libris Mortis page 51)

if i drop abjuration i can cover that with the cleric levels i will get from TN
my next option would be enchantment.
#2
sakuradm
Mar 22, 2008 20:00:33 Why not be a WIZARD? Wizards can cast necromancer spells. All a Necromancer is: someone who utilizes the power of death and the dead.
#3
claypigeons
Mar 22, 2008 21:20:21
hi all as i've been saying in my last few posts that i like to play a necromancer however just reading over the libris mortis theres a few spells in there which are conjuration and abjuration based and i'm starting to think specialising in necromancer is wrong where i would hae to give up 2 schools a normal wizard has access to them all, but then i can't really call myself a necromancer.

i mean i'm starting to think that specializing in necromancer is a bad idea, but then again i can't think of any schools to drop if i was, personaly i can illusion is the prime one to drop if your a necromancer but i played an illusionist for 6 months and know how to work them. and i can see it being very useful, so my question is

what are the best two to drop (please bare in mind i will take 1 level in cleric then prestige into True Necromancer (Libris Mortis page 51)

if i drop abjuration i can cover that with the cleric levels i will get from TN
my next option would be enchantment.

NEVER play a True Necromancer. This is why. Theurge classes, in almost every case, are terrible.

Also, if you're looking for schools to drop, and you want to be a necromancer... Drop Evocation and Enchantment. Illusion can copy most every both schools have to offer.
#4
wraithstrike
Mar 22, 2008 21:28:24 If you are going to be a necromancer be a cleric or dreadnecromancer.
#5
Bloodsoul
Mar 22, 2008 21:29:47 I ended up ditching Enchantment and Illusion, but I'm also using the variant rules from Unearthed Arcana. They look fun.
#6
necroramo
Mar 22, 2008 22:09:07 If you want to specialize in necromancy, it shouldn't be too much skin off your back to drop two schools that you wouldn't be using anyway.
Go Wizard if you want to focus on de-buffing, Cleric or Dread Necromancer if you want to focus on animating armies of undead.
#7
fishfinger
Mar 23, 2008 7:04:38 but true necromancer gives you both levels in Arcane caster and divine caster but you must have at least 1 level in each in order to get it, whats so special about Dread necromancer?

so what about my question do i leave the normal wizard as it or drop 2 schools once again i see abjeration and enchantment
#8
sakuradm
Mar 23, 2008 9:21:49 ???? What's devine about an evil aligned caster? Just go with Wizard. At least that way you can cast any spell of that level, AND NECROMANCER spells.
#9
fishfinger
Mar 23, 2008 9:36:52 so should i take spell focus necromancy just to give me that bit of edge?
#10
wraithstrike
Mar 23, 2008 10:19:20 There are two types of necromancers, those that focus on using necromancy spells to kill or make you wish you were dead, and those that focus on having controlling undead. If you want an army of undead the cleric and DN are the way to go.
For a better explanation look here

If you decide to go DN look here
#11
count_arioch_the_28th
Mar 23, 2008 10:21:07 Alright, here are some pointers.

First off, you picked a wizard. You won't be that good at controlling various undead, and depending on how strict your DM is, then your undead might be a liability, not a boon.

First question I would like to know is, Will your DM freak when you animate something? That makes a huge difference in what you can or can't do.

If your DM doesn't mind you animating the dead, let me give you one advice: Zombies aren't very good in general, except as an un living shield to soak up damage, or if they flew in life. (Animating a manticore or whatever gives you a slow, but perfectly loyal flying mount.) Edit: Oh, and hydras and outsiders make really good zombies too.

But if you have lots of skeletons as fighters, then you can try a neat trick, since you have Evocation. Try the Uttercold Assault Necromancer. Here are some instructions:

Uttercold Assault Necromancer (Wizard)
The ultimate goal is to cast spells with the Cold Subtype that do half negative energy damage, while you and all your undead minions are immune to cold and healed by negative energy damage. Basically, this is done with Energy Substitution[cold] (a prereq for Lord of the Uttercold) and the feat Lord of the Uttercold. Then you put up Walls of Fire(uttercold) and you and all your minions dance around in them like Homer Simpson at the American Embassy regaining all your hit points every round and inflicting real evocation-style damage on your enemies. It’s hilarious. You can burn lots of feats and be a blaster mage at high levels, or take Beckon the Frozen to get cold-subtyped undead with Summon Undead that you heal with uttercold, but the essential build is two feats (though you are required to be undead or take Tomb-tainrted Soul if you want in on the fun).

For people who like numbers, look at your favorite Evocation modified by a resonable amount of Sudden or Rod-based Metamagic(or even vanilla metamagic). Then imagine your cold-immune undead like Skeletons or cold-Subbed Zombies like Frost Giants taking 1/2th of that damage each round as healing. A simple thought exercise is the 10th level Wizard with a vanilla Empowered Cold-subbed Fireball: average damage to your enemies is 15d6 (52.5 points of damage), with a save for half, and an average of 26 points of healing for every one of your minions. Makes Inflict look like crap, right?

Now, lets play this excercise with a real blaster mage: A 12th level Sorcerer with the feats from Races of the Dragon that drop metamagic costs and speed metamagic and a Rod-Maximised, Twinned Fireball: a flat 120 points of damage with a save for half and a flat 60 points of healing. Thats not even counting a once per day Sudden Empower for an extra 10d6 (35 damage, save for half, and an extra 17 points of healing).

Even if you don't want to be a blaster mage or don't want to sling together complex battle plans involving Walls of Fire(uttercold) to heal your minions and hurt your enemies, the ability to cast a single Wall of Fire after every combat to heal all your minions and perhaps yourself is an invaluable Necromantic aid.

#12
necroramo
Mar 23, 2008 10:57:05 True necromancer, however, is a really really bad class. Seriously. I think it was in K's guide where he said that playing a fighter, taking leadership to get a level 18 necromancer wizard, and then him taking leadership to get a level 16 cleric will get you better spellcasting than if you did true necromancer. So, if you want to go true necromancer you might as well play fighter 20.

Dread Necromancer is the Warmage of Necromancy, and he excels mostly in making vast hordes of undead. His trademark ability allows him to control 4 + cha bonus HD of undead per dread necromancer level, as opposed to 4 hd per level, thus allowing you to easily double, and eventually triple, the size of the undead horde that you would have had as something else.
#13
the_black_hand
Mar 23, 2008 19:02:55 Go with Wizard, that way you can still cast your necromancy spells and all others.
#14
wraithstrike
Mar 23, 2008 19:35:44 FF do you plan to use necromancy spells exclusively, or do you just want that to be a strong part of your character? If you just want to be one in name you could just roleplay that aspect and still keep the versatility of a wizard.
#15
fishfinger
Mar 24, 2008 6:29:03 strong part of the character

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 fishfinger Mar 22, 2008 17:06:35	hi all as i've been saying in my last few posts that i like to play a necromancer however just reading over the libris mortis theres a few spells in there which are conjuration and abjuration based and i'm starting to think specialising in necromancer is wrong where i would hae to give up 2 schools a normal wizard has access to them all, but then i can't really call myself a necromancer. i mean i'm starting to think that specializing in necromancer is a bad idea, but then again i can't think of any schools to drop if i was, personaly i can illusion is the prime one to drop if your a necromancer but i played an illusionist for 6 months and know how to work them. and i can see it being very useful, so my question is what are the best two to drop (please bare in mind i will take 1 level in cleric then prestige into True Necromancer (Libris Mortis page 51) if i drop abjuration i can cover that with the cleric levels i will get from TN my next option would be enchantment.
#2 sakuradm Mar 22, 2008 20:00:33	Why not be a WIZARD? Wizards can cast necromancer spells. All a Necromancer is: someone who utilizes the power of death and the dead.
#3 claypigeons Mar 22, 2008 21:20:21	hi all as i've been saying in my last few posts that i like to play a necromancer however just reading over the libris mortis theres a few spells in there which are conjuration and abjuration based and i'm starting to think specialising in necromancer is wrong where i would hae to give up 2 schools a normal wizard has access to them all, but then i can't really call myself a necromancer. i mean i'm starting to think that specializing in necromancer is a bad idea, but then again i can't think of any schools to drop if i was, personaly i can illusion is the prime one to drop if your a necromancer but i played an illusionist for 6 months and know how to work them. and i can see it being very useful, so my question is what are the best two to drop (please bare in mind i will take 1 level in cleric then prestige into True Necromancer (Libris Mortis page 51) if i drop abjuration i can cover that with the cleric levels i will get from TN my next option would be enchantment. NEVER play a True Necromancer. This is why. Theurge classes, in almost every case, are terrible. Also, if you're looking for schools to drop, and you want to be a necromancer... Drop Evocation and Enchantment. Illusion can copy most every both schools have to offer.
#4 wraithstrike Mar 22, 2008 21:28:24	If you are going to be a necromancer be a cleric or dreadnecromancer.
#5 Bloodsoul Mar 22, 2008 21:29:47	I ended up ditching Enchantment and Illusion, but I'm also using the variant rules from Unearthed Arcana. They look fun.
#6 necroramo Mar 22, 2008 22:09:07	If you want to specialize in necromancy, it shouldn't be too much skin off your back to drop two schools that you wouldn't be using anyway. Go Wizard if you want to focus on de-buffing, Cleric or Dread Necromancer if you want to focus on animating armies of undead.
#7 fishfinger Mar 23, 2008 7:04:38	but true necromancer gives you both levels in Arcane caster and divine caster but you must have at least 1 level in each in order to get it, whats so special about Dread necromancer? so what about my question do i leave the normal wizard as it or drop 2 schools once again i see abjeration and enchantment
#8 sakuradm Mar 23, 2008 9:21:49	???? What's devine about an evil aligned caster? Just go with Wizard. At least that way you can cast any spell of that level, AND NECROMANCER spells.
#9 fishfinger Mar 23, 2008 9:36:52	so should i take spell focus necromancy just to give me that bit of edge?
#10 wraithstrike Mar 23, 2008 10:19:20	There are two types of necromancers, those that focus on using necromancy spells to kill or make you wish you were dead, and those that focus on having controlling undead. If you want an army of undead the cleric and DN are the way to go. For a better explanation look here If you decide to go DN look here
#11 count_arioch_the_28th Mar 23, 2008 10:21:07	Alright, here are some pointers. First off, you picked a wizard. You won't be that good at controlling various undead, and depending on how strict your DM is, then your undead might be a liability, not a boon. First question I would like to know is, Will your DM freak when you animate something? That makes a huge difference in what you can or can't do. If your DM doesn't mind you animating the dead, let me give you one advice: Zombies aren't very good in general, except as an un living shield to soak up damage, or if they flew in life. (Animating a manticore or whatever gives you a slow, but perfectly loyal flying mount.) Edit: Oh, and hydras and outsiders make really good zombies too. But if you have lots of skeletons as fighters, then you can try a neat trick, since you have Evocation. Try the Uttercold Assault Necromancer. Here are some instructions: Uttercold Assault Necromancer (Wizard) The ultimate goal is to cast spells with the Cold Subtype that do half negative energy damage, while you and all your undead minions are immune to cold and healed by negative energy damage. Basically, this is done with Energy Substitution[cold] (a prereq for Lord of the Uttercold) and the feat Lord of the Uttercold. Then you put up Walls of Fire(uttercold) and you and all your minions dance around in them like Homer Simpson at the American Embassy regaining all your hit points every round and inflicting real evocation-style damage on your enemies. It’s hilarious. You can burn lots of feats and be a blaster mage at high levels, or take Beckon the Frozen to get cold-subtyped undead with Summon Undead that you heal with uttercold, but the essential build is two feats (though you are required to be undead or take Tomb-tainrted Soul if you want in on the fun). For people who like numbers, look at your favorite Evocation modified by a resonable amount of Sudden or Rod-based Metamagic(or even vanilla metamagic). Then imagine your cold-immune undead like Skeletons or cold-Subbed Zombies like Frost Giants taking 1/2th of that damage each round as healing. A simple thought exercise is the 10th level Wizard with a vanilla Empowered Cold-subbed Fireball: average damage to your enemies is 15d6 (52.5 points of damage), with a save for half, and an average of 26 points of healing for every one of your minions. Makes Inflict look like crap, right? Now, lets play this excercise with a real blaster mage: A 12th level Sorcerer with the feats from Races of the Dragon that drop metamagic costs and speed metamagic and a Rod-Maximised, Twinned Fireball: a flat 120 points of damage with a save for half and a flat 60 points of healing. Thats not even counting a once per day Sudden Empower for an extra 10d6 (35 damage, save for half, and an extra 17 points of healing). Even if you don't want to be a blaster mage or don't want to sling together complex battle plans involving Walls of Fire(uttercold) to heal your minions and hurt your enemies, the ability to cast a single Wall of Fire after every combat to heal all your minions and perhaps yourself is an invaluable Necromantic aid.
#12 necroramo Mar 23, 2008 10:57:05	True necromancer, however, is a really really bad class. Seriously. I think it was in K's guide where he said that playing a fighter, taking leadership to get a level 18 necromancer wizard, and then him taking leadership to get a level 16 cleric will get you better spellcasting than if you did true necromancer. So, if you want to go true necromancer you might as well play fighter 20. Dread Necromancer is the Warmage of Necromancy, and he excels mostly in making vast hordes of undead. His trademark ability allows him to control 4 + cha bonus HD of undead per dread necromancer level, as opposed to 4 hd per level, thus allowing you to easily double, and eventually triple, the size of the undead horde that you would have had as something else.
#13 the_black_hand Mar 23, 2008 19:02:55	Go with Wizard, that way you can still cast your necromancy spells and all others.
#14 wraithstrike Mar 23, 2008 19:35:44	FF do you plan to use necromancy spells exclusively, or do you just want that to be a strong part of your character? If you just want to be one in name you could just roleplay that aspect and still keep the versatility of a wizard.
#15 fishfinger Mar 24, 2008 6:29:03	strong part of the character