Wolftaur's oh my! - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Wolftaur's oh my!

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Janx_14
May 27, 2008 15:30:05 My friends and me are having a Warcraft D&D Campaign (the old one, not the WOW one). It my friend’s first time DMing, but we are starting at effectively 15th level due to the fact we tend to only have short campaigns (it irritates us, and thus we’re looking forward to 4th to make early levels interesting).

The problem is, oddly enough, the guy who is usually our DM (and not a bad one from what we’ve experienced) for some reason wants to use the Tauric creature template from Savage Species to make a Dire Wolftaur. The other players in our party are a Blood Elf Wizard/Graven One, a Blue Dragon Whelp Wizard, and a Tauren Binder (who binds ancestral ghosts instead of Vestiges).

The problem is, the guy’s Wolftaur has a grand total of 40 strength! Apparently using the template, Wolftaur’s get +14 strength, he remarkably rolled an 18, put 2 points into strength, and has Belt of Giant Strength +6.

Because of the Tauren’s +4 strength and +2 con, we originally intended to the Tauren to serve as our tanker. Thus the player largely invested his amount of gold in weapons and defensive gear. The guy with the Wolftaur had been putting off creating his character, cause he hadn’t decided what he was going to be yet (though he was considering being the party’s healer, being that he said he’d fill in what we needed), and then suddenly sprang this shocker on us.

Now, I realized Binders aren’t supposed to be the best melee characters, or the best casters, but he was really looking forward to being the front-line guy, but now it seems that the Wolftaur Barbarian not only does more damage than him, but is also tougher AND faster. Surprisingly for +14 racial strength (along with some other nice buffs) only gives +2 ECL and 7 hitdie (atleast according to the template). Wolftaurs also do not exist in Warcraft.

The problem is the DM isn’t sure what to do, as he’s new to this and has a great deal of respect for the guy with Wolftaur, as he’s always been our main DM. He’s not sure how to convince the guy with the Wolftaur to either not play or make a different character. And we’d like some outside opinions on this situation.
#2
ac_noj
May 27, 2008 16:57:22 Let the Tauren rework his character to fit the group?

Give us more details on the Wolftaur. Is the guy a level 7 Wolftaur / 6 Barbarian / +2 ECL? Large size and with a high base speed? It's a overpowered but then, melee tends to fall behind casters at high level so maybe you should just let it slide.
If I was going to tweak it, I'd make it +3 ECL. That way he can't get Greater Rage which costs him 4 str vs. a Mighty Rage Barbarian. That makes his Str advantage +6 over a Half-Orc with -3 base attack bonus, which doesn't sound quite so severe. Basically he's trading half his skill points for +3 damage, large size, and a speed boost. Munchkin but not broken.
#3
Janx_14
May 27, 2008 18:08:15 Actually I’m the Tauren Binder. I guess I’m going to have to rethink my Vestiges, though I feel usurped.

Now, before people think I’m being whiny just because I have to re-arrange my character, I actually would like to see his character in action rather than just look at it from a stats point of view. Its also the DM and the other player (the other being a hardcore Warcraft nut) who keep bringing it up, as his barbarian, even while not raging, is stronger than everything but 1 monster and a villain in the Warcraft Monster Manual (including the CR 50 Lich King). And they (and i) are finding it hard to comprehend a 'normal' race that somehow the strengths of these other, much larger beings with a simple +6 belt of giant strength.

I was able to obtain information on his character.

7 Wolftaur / 6 Barbarian / +2 ECL

Str: 40 (+15)
Dex: 26 (+8)
Con: 28 (+9)
Int: 16 (+3)
Wis: 17 (+3)
Cha: 16 (+3)

Fort +16
Ref +15
Will +10

BAB: +13/+8/+3

Speed: 60ft

AC: 30 (10+7+0+8+5)

Initiative: +8

Weapons:
+5 Large Greatsword of Shock +40/+35/+30 3d6+27 17-20/x2 - Slashing +1d6 elec. damage
+1 Composite Longbow (+6 Str) +21/+16/+11 1d8+7 19-20/x2 120 ft. Piercing

Feats:
Track
Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Improved Critical (Greatsword)
Quick Draw
Extra Rage x3
Extend Rage
Instantaneous Rage

Racial:
Darkvision 60 ft.
Low-light Vision
Scent
Human Traits

Class:
Fast Movement
Rage 8/day
Improved Uncanny Dodge
Trap Sense +2

Equipment:
Bracers of Armour +7
Ring of Protection +3
Belt of Giant Strength +6
Amulet of Health +4
Gloves of Dexterity +4
Backpack
Cloak
Quiver with Arrows (we dont bother counting numbers of arrows unless their special)

Now, if his character is added, how can my Binder fit in? We have 2 wizards already for blasting stuff, and we have a melee damage/tank that I can at best struggle to beat in terms of melee damage.

The party is currently lacking a healer/buffer, but a binder cannot buff others, and its best heal (until epic vestiges) only does 1d8+10 max on a 5 turn cooldown (which is surperb for in-between battles i suppose). I currently bind Savnok, Andras, and Eligor for my melee setup, though I have a vestige phylactery to store an extra vestige if I need to switch (of which I am not sure what to pick)
#4
master-of-puppets
May 27, 2008 18:12:54 if there arent wolftaurs in Azeroth, and the player has DM'd he should be reasonable when the new DM tells him hmmm I've been looking onto your idea and actually the point in playing in Azeroth is to play the races we know, choose one from the Warcraft book please...

if he wants to play wolfen (it seems so, I can see your picture with arm-blades) Id as a DM would suggest to play with the stats of a gnoll, there are gnolls in Azeroth, there could be a sub race with wolf apareance, more honorable and with the WoD tribal backwround

he should be happy, the last word belogs to the master so the option shoud be like ok, you dont like it? then choose a race from the book, like the others, to take more would be unfair with the others... you do understad right? (with a bold grin that says "you will end up choosing another character, just later"
#5
themocaw
May 27, 2008 19:05:21 My suggestion.

1. Ask him to point out an example of when Wolf-taurs have existed in Azeroth.

2. If he can't give one, but wants to be the only one, or introduce a race of them to the game, then say "****."

3. If he knows what it is, and responds with excitement rather than irritation and disgust, he's a dirty furry and needs to be pelted with dice.
#6
Janx_14
May 28, 2008 17:44:42 Well, we knew he was a furry before anyway, though he's never let D&D and furryness mix before (except one character, who was tolerated). Though i kinda figured that was his reasoning behind this character.

Anyway, the DM brought it up with him and he decided not to take part in the adventure, which i think is really for the best in the end, as that character was creating too much hostility before we even sat down for a session.

I thank those for their opinions and sugestions. Now just to find someone who can heal...
#7
themocaw
May 28, 2008 19:11:30
Well, we knew he was a furry before anyway, though he's never let D&D and furryness mix before (except one character, who was tolerated). Though i kinda figured that was his reasoning behind this character.

Anyway, the DM brought it up with him and he decided not to take part in the adventure, which i think is really for the best in the end, as that character was creating too much hostility before we even sat down for a session.

I thank those for their opinions and sugestions. Now just to find someone who can heal...

No problem. Maybe next time you can offer to play Ironclaw - anthopomorphic animals fighting with swords. Which doesn't really fall under furry because, you know, animal people who are also samurai or ninjas are A-Okay.
#8
Neutronium_Dragon
May 29, 2008 2:58:17 There aren't wolf-taurs, but there are wolf-men in Azeroth - the worgen. They're not exactly the type to deal with most of the other populace of Azeroth in a friendly fashion, though.
#9
master-of-puppets
Jun 04, 2008 19:17:58
There aren't wolf-taurs, but there are wolf-men in Azeroth - the worgen. They're not exactly the type to deal with most of the other populace of Azeroth in a friendly fashion, though.

im shure there are rules for worgen then, why take outsiderules for wolf-men???

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Janx_14 May 27, 2008 15:30:05	My friends and me are having a Warcraft D&D Campaign (the old one, not the WOW one). It my friend’s first time DMing, but we are starting at effectively 15th level due to the fact we tend to only have short campaigns (it irritates us, and thus we’re looking forward to 4th to make early levels interesting). The problem is, oddly enough, the guy who is usually our DM (and not a bad one from what we’ve experienced) for some reason wants to use the Tauric creature template from Savage Species to make a Dire Wolftaur. The other players in our party are a Blood Elf Wizard/Graven One, a Blue Dragon Whelp Wizard, and a Tauren Binder (who binds ancestral ghosts instead of Vestiges). The problem is, the guy’s Wolftaur has a grand total of 40 strength! Apparently using the template, Wolftaur’s get +14 strength, he remarkably rolled an 18, put 2 points into strength, and has Belt of Giant Strength +6. Because of the Tauren’s +4 strength and +2 con, we originally intended to the Tauren to serve as our tanker. Thus the player largely invested his amount of gold in weapons and defensive gear. The guy with the Wolftaur had been putting off creating his character, cause he hadn’t decided what he was going to be yet (though he was considering being the party’s healer, being that he said he’d fill in what we needed), and then suddenly sprang this shocker on us. Now, I realized Binders aren’t supposed to be the best melee characters, or the best casters, but he was really looking forward to being the front-line guy, but now it seems that the Wolftaur Barbarian not only does more damage than him, but is also tougher AND faster. Surprisingly for +14 racial strength (along with some other nice buffs) only gives +2 ECL and 7 hitdie (atleast according to the template). Wolftaurs also do not exist in Warcraft. The problem is the DM isn’t sure what to do, as he’s new to this and has a great deal of respect for the guy with Wolftaur, as he’s always been our main DM. He’s not sure how to convince the guy with the Wolftaur to either not play or make a different character. And we’d like some outside opinions on this situation.
#2 ac_noj May 27, 2008 16:57:22	Let the Tauren rework his character to fit the group? Give us more details on the Wolftaur. Is the guy a level 7 Wolftaur / 6 Barbarian / +2 ECL? Large size and with a high base speed? It's a overpowered but then, melee tends to fall behind casters at high level so maybe you should just let it slide. If I was going to tweak it, I'd make it +3 ECL. That way he can't get Greater Rage which costs him 4 str vs. a Mighty Rage Barbarian. That makes his Str advantage +6 over a Half-Orc with -3 base attack bonus, which doesn't sound quite so severe. Basically he's trading half his skill points for +3 damage, large size, and a speed boost. Munchkin but not broken.
#3 Janx_14 May 27, 2008 18:08:15	Actually I’m the Tauren Binder. I guess I’m going to have to rethink my Vestiges, though I feel usurped. Now, before people think I’m being whiny just because I have to re-arrange my character, I actually would like to see his character in action rather than just look at it from a stats point of view. Its also the DM and the other player (the other being a hardcore Warcraft nut) who keep bringing it up, as his barbarian, even while not raging, is stronger than everything but 1 monster and a villain in the Warcraft Monster Manual (including the CR 50 Lich King). And they (and i) are finding it hard to comprehend a 'normal' race that somehow the strengths of these other, much larger beings with a simple +6 belt of giant strength. I was able to obtain information on his character. 7 Wolftaur / 6 Barbarian / +2 ECL Str: 40 (+15) Dex: 26 (+8) Con: 28 (+9) Int: 16 (+3) Wis: 17 (+3) Cha: 16 (+3) Fort +16 Ref +15 Will +10 BAB: +13/+8/+3 Speed: 60ft AC: 30 (10+7+0+8+5) Initiative: +8 Weapons: +5 Large Greatsword of Shock +40/+35/+30 3d6+27 17-20/x2 - Slashing +1d6 elec. damage +1 Composite Longbow (+6 Str) +21/+16/+11 1d8+7 19-20/x2 120 ft. Piercing Feats: Track Weapon Focus (Greatsword) Improved Critical (Greatsword) Quick Draw Extra Rage x3 Extend Rage Instantaneous Rage Racial: Darkvision 60 ft. Low-light Vision Scent Human Traits Class: Fast Movement Rage 8/day Improved Uncanny Dodge Trap Sense +2 Equipment: Bracers of Armour +7 Ring of Protection +3 Belt of Giant Strength +6 Amulet of Health +4 Gloves of Dexterity +4 Backpack Cloak Quiver with Arrows (we dont bother counting numbers of arrows unless their special) Now, if his character is added, how can my Binder fit in? We have 2 wizards already for blasting stuff, and we have a melee damage/tank that I can at best struggle to beat in terms of melee damage. The party is currently lacking a healer/buffer, but a binder cannot buff others, and its best heal (until epic vestiges) only does 1d8+10 max on a 5 turn cooldown (which is surperb for in-between battles i suppose). I currently bind Savnok, Andras, and Eligor for my melee setup, though I have a vestige phylactery to store an extra vestige if I need to switch (of which I am not sure what to pick)
#4 master-of-puppets May 27, 2008 18:12:54	if there arent wolftaurs in Azeroth, and the player has DM'd he should be reasonable when the new DM tells him hmmm I've been looking onto your idea and actually the point in playing in Azeroth is to play the races we know, choose one from the Warcraft book please... if he wants to play wolfen (it seems so, I can see your picture with arm-blades) Id as a DM would suggest to play with the stats of a gnoll, there are gnolls in Azeroth, there could be a sub race with wolf apareance, more honorable and with the WoD tribal backwround he should be happy, the last word belogs to the master so the option shoud be like ok, you dont like it? then choose a race from the book, like the others, to take more would be unfair with the others... you do understad right? (with a bold grin that says "you will end up choosing another character, just later"
#5 themocaw May 27, 2008 19:05:21	My suggestion. 1. Ask him to point out an example of when Wolf-taurs have existed in Azeroth. 2. If he can't give one, but wants to be the only one, or introduce a race of them to the game, then say "****." 3. If he knows what it is, and responds with excitement rather than irritation and disgust, he's a dirty furry and needs to be pelted with dice.
#6 Janx_14 May 28, 2008 17:44:42	Well, we knew he was a furry before anyway, though he's never let D&D and furryness mix before (except one character, who was tolerated). Though i kinda figured that was his reasoning behind this character. Anyway, the DM brought it up with him and he decided not to take part in the adventure, which i think is really for the best in the end, as that character was creating too much hostility before we even sat down for a session. I thank those for their opinions and sugestions. Now just to find someone who can heal...
#7 themocaw May 28, 2008 19:11:30	Well, we knew he was a furry before anyway, though he's never let D&D and furryness mix before (except one character, who was tolerated). Though i kinda figured that was his reasoning behind this character. Anyway, the DM brought it up with him and he decided not to take part in the adventure, which i think is really for the best in the end, as that character was creating too much hostility before we even sat down for a session. I thank those for their opinions and sugestions. Now just to find someone who can heal... No problem. Maybe next time you can offer to play Ironclaw - anthopomorphic animals fighting with swords. Which doesn't really fall under furry because, you know, animal people who are also samurai or ninjas are A-Okay.
#8 Neutronium_Dragon May 29, 2008 2:58:17	There aren't wolf-taurs, but there are wolf-men in Azeroth - the worgen. They're not exactly the type to deal with most of the other populace of Azeroth in a friendly fashion, though.
#9 master-of-puppets Jun 04, 2008 19:17:58	There aren't wolf-taurs, but there are wolf-men in Azeroth - the worgen. They're not exactly the type to deal with most of the other populace of Azeroth in a friendly fashion, though. im shure there are rules for worgen then, why take outsiderules for wolf-men???